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	<title>Comments on: Redoing the Kitchen While the House Burns Down</title>
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	<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/</link>
	<description>Your Ringdside Seat for the Global Financial Crisis</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 04:20:43 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: tyler</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>tyler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 05:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Its hilarious for me to hear this left wing dribble from the op ed page from a supposedly &quot;right wing&quot; paper.  The same goes for fox news who is owned by the same guy who owns the wall street journal there all hacks and make me sick, especially sean vannity.  I wouldn&#039;t call people who go to tea parties anti govt.  Any time you start calling a large group of people &quot;anti government&quot; you make them out to be militias.  People on the right are for less government not no government.  Damn fool get a clue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its hilarious for me to hear this left wing dribble from the op ed page from a supposedly &#8220;right wing&#8221; paper.  The same goes for fox news who is owned by the same guy who owns the wall street journal there all hacks and make me sick, especially sean vannity.  I wouldn&#8217;t call people who go to tea parties anti govt.  Any time you start calling a large group of people &#8220;anti government&#8221; you make them out to be militias.  People on the right are for less government not no government.  Damn fool get a clue.</p>
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		<title>By: lorgon</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>lorgon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-172</guid>
		<description>Well It seems he is referenceing the &quot;starve the beast&quot; crowd.. and an  prime example of this  anti-govt was Jon Bolton who ranted against the UN for decades and was appointed to be our rep. there.  You have to remember that 1994 rep. crowd who took over and used that anti govt as leverage so for those on the outside of the onion still caught up in the good cop bad cop rhetoric of the last millenium this may resonate.  I think those who are awaking to find that they have been operated on and the morphine drip is empty are far beyond this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well It seems he is referenceing the &#8220;starve the beast&#8221; crowd.. and an  prime example of this  anti-govt was Jon Bolton who ranted against the UN for decades and was appointed to be our rep. there.  You have to remember that 1994 rep. crowd who took over and used that anti govt as leverage so for those on the outside of the onion still caught up in the good cop bad cop rhetoric of the last millenium this may resonate.  I think those who are awaking to find that they have been operated on and the morphine drip is empty are far beyond this.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Thrasher</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-171</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Thrasher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:49:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-171</guid>
		<description>This time it&#039;s different for a couple reasons. First, because of our much maligned (unfairly IMO) social safety net, Social Security alone paid out $615 billion to more than 51 million recipients in 2008 according to the 2009 Trustees Report.

Social Security recipient spending represents roughly 3.2% of our $14 trillion economy. My eyes roll when people suggest we do away with it. Talk about shooting yourself in both feet. These same people never suggest doing away with corporate welfare programs such as the Export/Import Bank or subsidies to corporate farms.

Inflation is currently just over 9% and unemployment is about 22% using a comparable U6 according to John Williams at Shadow Government Statistics. Mr. Williams calculates inflation and unemployment using both 1992 and 1981 formula as opposed to the more convoluted machinations put out by the BLS today. I highly recommend his site.

We haven&#039;t witnessed the often predicted, just around the corner Weimar scenario because the trillions spent to bail out the banks isn&#039;t circulating through the economy the way Social Security payments do. For the most part, this money remains on deposit at the Fed or is held by the bailed out bank to make the books appear viable.

Why lend when you can borrow form the Fed at less than 0% and buy government bonds and notes that pay 3-5%. There has never been a better time than now to be a banker.

All this newly created money will eventually circulate beyond the tight little triangle of the Fed-Banks-Treasury and we will see hyperinflation. On that day a banker&#039;s most valued customers just might be Social Security recipients. The retired, widows, orphans, blind and other disabled might well be the only deposits upon which the bankers can depend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This time it&#8217;s different for a couple reasons. First, because of our much maligned (unfairly IMO) social safety net, Social Security alone paid out $615 billion to more than 51 million recipients in 2008 according to the 2009 Trustees Report.</p>
<p>Social Security recipient spending represents roughly 3.2% of our $14 trillion economy. My eyes roll when people suggest we do away with it. Talk about shooting yourself in both feet. These same people never suggest doing away with corporate welfare programs such as the Export/Import Bank or subsidies to corporate farms.</p>
<p>Inflation is currently just over 9% and unemployment is about 22% using a comparable U6 according to John Williams at Shadow Government Statistics. Mr. Williams calculates inflation and unemployment using both 1992 and 1981 formula as opposed to the more convoluted machinations put out by the BLS today. I highly recommend his site.</p>
<p>We haven&#8217;t witnessed the often predicted, just around the corner Weimar scenario because the trillions spent to bail out the banks isn&#8217;t circulating through the economy the way Social Security payments do. For the most part, this money remains on deposit at the Fed or is held by the bailed out bank to make the books appear viable.</p>
<p>Why lend when you can borrow form the Fed at less than 0% and buy government bonds and notes that pay 3-5%. There has never been a better time than now to be a banker.</p>
<p>All this newly created money will eventually circulate beyond the tight little triangle of the Fed-Banks-Treasury and we will see hyperinflation. On that day a banker&#8217;s most valued customers just might be Social Security recipients. The retired, widows, orphans, blind and other disabled might well be the only deposits upon which the bankers can depend.</p>
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		<title>By: paper is poverty</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-170</link>
		<dc:creator>paper is poverty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-170</guid>
		<description>@ nonpartisan--

As I understand it, during a hyperinflation there is deflation in real (gold) terms, i.e. the money supply and prices are falling in gold equivalents.  You could think of it as deflation + currency collapse, as opposed to merely deflation.  Looking at things in nominal terms obscures the deflation, since the currency is failing and &quot;nominal&quot; is drastically different from &quot;real&quot;.

Once the money velocity goes high enough, prices will increase much faster than the rate of money printing.  A doubling of the money supply might quadruple prices (or worse).  You&#039;re really in the death spiral at that point, since every time the government prints more money, it gets even harder for people to buy things, and they holler even louder for yet more money.  In terms of &quot;stuff&quot; or gold the money supply is actually shrinking even while they print furiously.  During the Weimar hyperinflation the total gold value of all their currency shrunk by something like 95%.

Notice that this means gold doesn&#039;t just act as a store of value and a way to preserve capital.  At the end of the hyperinflation the purchasing power of gold should be much higher than before the start.

Meanwhile, businesses can&#039;t cope with rapid inflation and go bankrupt, and production shuts down due to price controls.  Capital is either wiped out by inflation or it&#039;s &quot;on strike&quot; (safely tucked away in gold, silver, land, etc), so there&#039;s no business investment going on.  The economy may have an initial &quot;crack-up boom&quot; but it eventually grinds to a halt without a reliable currency.  Which sure feels like massive deflation to the guy on the street.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ nonpartisan&#8211;</p>
<p>As I understand it, during a hyperinflation there is deflation in real (gold) terms, i.e. the money supply and prices are falling in gold equivalents.  You could think of it as deflation + currency collapse, as opposed to merely deflation.  Looking at things in nominal terms obscures the deflation, since the currency is failing and &#8220;nominal&#8221; is drastically different from &#8220;real&#8221;.</p>
<p>Once the money velocity goes high enough, prices will increase much faster than the rate of money printing.  A doubling of the money supply might quadruple prices (or worse).  You&#8217;re really in the death spiral at that point, since every time the government prints more money, it gets even harder for people to buy things, and they holler even louder for yet more money.  In terms of &#8220;stuff&#8221; or gold the money supply is actually shrinking even while they print furiously.  During the Weimar hyperinflation the total gold value of all their currency shrunk by something like 95%.</p>
<p>Notice that this means gold doesn&#8217;t just act as a store of value and a way to preserve capital.  At the end of the hyperinflation the purchasing power of gold should be much higher than before the start.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, businesses can&#8217;t cope with rapid inflation and go bankrupt, and production shuts down due to price controls.  Capital is either wiped out by inflation or it&#8217;s &#8220;on strike&#8221; (safely tucked away in gold, silver, land, etc), so there&#8217;s no business investment going on.  The economy may have an initial &#8220;crack-up boom&#8221; but it eventually grinds to a halt without a reliable currency.  Which sure feels like massive deflation to the guy on the street.</p>
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		<title>By: nonpartisan</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-169</link>
		<dc:creator>nonpartisan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-169</guid>
		<description>Interesetig comment above about deflationary dperession and hyperinflation being the same thing. Is this true?

the way I see it, the super-rich make it through either scenario

the frugal savers who have have lived within their means, are freeof debt, and have prepared for a rainy day can manage the deflationary scenario, but will see the fruits of their labor quickly dissipate with hyperinflation.

the typical American overspending, up-to the-ears in debt glutton will (and should) get hammered in either scenarion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesetig comment above about deflationary dperession and hyperinflation being the same thing. Is this true?</p>
<p>the way I see it, the super-rich make it through either scenario</p>
<p>the frugal savers who have have lived within their means, are freeof debt, and have prepared for a rainy day can manage the deflationary scenario, but will see the fruits of their labor quickly dissipate with hyperinflation.</p>
<p>the typical American overspending, up-to the-ears in debt glutton will (and should) get hammered in either scenarion.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce C.</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-168</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 23:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-168</guid>
		<description>I stopped reading the WSJ a while ago so I&#039;m not familiar with Thomas Frank to understand exactly where he&#039;s coming from. Nevertheless, his declaration that gov. fails because of ant-gov. politicians is basically the same reasoning - or anti-reasoning, evasion, and intellectual dishonesty - as those who defend communism/socialism, etc: &quot;The right people weren&#039;t running things,&quot; &quot; It didn&#039;t go far enough,&quot; &quot;Corruption screwed it up,&quot; etc. Personally, I wish we had more and truer anti-government politicians - the kind who would resist the intrusion of government into areas not mandated by the Constitution. Government actions are necessarily un-economomic to some extent (and often to a large extent), meaning that they distort the basis of free-market interaction. All of the financial shenanigans and corruption that readers&#039; cite are the results of gov. being involved in the economy (e.g., being involved in REGULATION - read &quot;distortions&quot;) Therefore, I agree that more gov. programs cannot possibly improve things economically. At best they can counter some other programs but a net loss would still exist. A massive gov. withdrawal from the economy and a down-sizing is necessary but I think a complete uncontrollable and cathartic collapse will be required for that to happen. I am sincerely interested in seeing how things play out in the years ahead. Fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I stopped reading the WSJ a while ago so I&#8217;m not familiar with Thomas Frank to understand exactly where he&#8217;s coming from. Nevertheless, his declaration that gov. fails because of ant-gov. politicians is basically the same reasoning &#8211; or anti-reasoning, evasion, and intellectual dishonesty &#8211; as those who defend communism/socialism, etc: &#8220;The right people weren&#8217;t running things,&#8221; &#8221; It didn&#8217;t go far enough,&#8221; &#8220;Corruption screwed it up,&#8221; etc. Personally, I wish we had more and truer anti-government politicians &#8211; the kind who would resist the intrusion of government into areas not mandated by the Constitution. Government actions are necessarily un-economomic to some extent (and often to a large extent), meaning that they distort the basis of free-market interaction. All of the financial shenanigans and corruption that readers&#8217; cite are the results of gov. being involved in the economy (e.g., being involved in REGULATION &#8211; read &#8220;distortions&#8221;) Therefore, I agree that more gov. programs cannot possibly improve things economically. At best they can counter some other programs but a net loss would still exist. A massive gov. withdrawal from the economy and a down-sizing is necessary but I think a complete uncontrollable and cathartic collapse will be required for that to happen. I am sincerely interested in seeing how things play out in the years ahead. Fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: John Rubino</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-167</link>
		<dc:creator>John Rubino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 17:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-167</guid>
		<description>Brad,

Obviously Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, et al are bad guys who deserve to be impoverished or imprisoned. But rapacious bankers are just a symptom of the deeper problem, which is a government that prints unlimited amounts of paper currency and hands it to the banks in order to finance a global military empire and a cradle-to-grave welfare state. With sound money (i.e. money that exists in a limited quantity and can&#039;t be created out of thin air) the government would have to tell us the truth about what&#039;s possible and grow only to the extent that tax revenue is available. Bankers, defense contractors and oil companies would have less free money to play with and would commit fewer crimes. And the rest of us would have to behave like adults and stop demanding free stuff from our governments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>Obviously Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, et al are bad guys who deserve to be impoverished or imprisoned. But rapacious bankers are just a symptom of the deeper problem, which is a government that prints unlimited amounts of paper currency and hands it to the banks in order to finance a global military empire and a cradle-to-grave welfare state. With sound money (i.e. money that exists in a limited quantity and can&#8217;t be created out of thin air) the government would have to tell us the truth about what&#8217;s possible and grow only to the extent that tax revenue is available. Bankers, defense contractors and oil companies would have less free money to play with and would commit fewer crimes. And the rest of us would have to behave like adults and stop demanding free stuff from our governments.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Thrasher</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-166</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Thrasher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-166</guid>
		<description>BTW, back about 1842 Alexis de Toqueville observed, &quot;The great American experiment with democracy will work so long until the people find out they can raid the Treasury.&quot;

Well guess what, kids?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, back about 1842 Alexis de Toqueville observed, &#8220;The great American experiment with democracy will work so long until the people find out they can raid the Treasury.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well guess what, kids?</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Thrasher</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Thrasher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-165</guid>
		<description>The suggestion that this mess is the fault of government is laughable. Our government is merely a shill for the paper money boys and does their bidding. Our Treasury is little more than a branch office of Goldman Sachs.

I have one question for those of you blaming government. Is there ever a time when you blame the fat cats, crooks and liars who lost the trillions of dollars that caused this mess?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The suggestion that this mess is the fault of government is laughable. Our government is merely a shill for the paper money boys and does their bidding. Our Treasury is little more than a branch office of Goldman Sachs.</p>
<p>I have one question for those of you blaming government. Is there ever a time when you blame the fat cats, crooks and liars who lost the trillions of dollars that caused this mess?</p>
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		<title>By: Key Chart: U.S. Per Capita Debt and GDP Growth &#124; Reaction Radio</title>
		<link>http://dollarcollapse.com/articles/redoing-the-kitchen-while-the-house-burns-down/comment-page-1/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Key Chart: U.S. Per Capita Debt and GDP Growth &#124; Reaction Radio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dollarcollapse.com/?p=738#comment-164</guid>
		<description>[...] chart needs no comment and is worth more than a year&#8217;s bubble talk on cable TV, according to John Rubino at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] chart needs no comment and is worth more than a year&#8217;s bubble talk on cable TV, according to John Rubino at [...]</p>
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