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This Is What Gold Does In A Currency Crisis, Euro Edition

Today the European Central Bank acknowledged that the currency it manages is being sucked into a deflationary vortex. It responded in the usual way with, in effect, a massive devaluation. Eurozone citizens have also responded predictably, by converting their unbacked, make-believe, soon-to-be-worth-a-lot-less paper money into something tangible. They’re bidding gold up dramatically.

So after falling hard in 2013 and treading water for most of 2014, the euro price of gold has gone parabolic in the space of a couple of months. This sudden rather than gradual awakening is the standard pattern for a currency crisis, mainly because it takes a long time for most people to figure out their government is clueless and/or lying. But once they do figure it out, they act quickly.

Gold in euros Jan 2015

Europe’s gold chart isn’t as dramatic as Russia’s (see it here) because Europe doesn’t depend on oil exports and the euro, while dropping versus the dollar, isn’t yet in free-fall. But with another trillion euros due to hit the market in the coming year, and a series of currency union-threatening political crises in the pipeline, the flight to safety could easily become a stampede.

Europe and Russia, meanwhile aren’t the only countries with incipient currency crises. Here’s gold in Canadian dollars:

Gold in Canadian Dollars Jan 2015

Just to be clear, this isn’t a prediction about the immediate future, but an attempt to illustrate the nature of gold. It behaves this way in crises because it is sound money which can’t be created in infinite quantities by panicked central banks as can euros, Canadian dollars and all other fiat currencies. These charts illustrate what happens when this difference starts to matter.

Right now, the fear is country-specific. Europeans start to distrust their government and shift to gold, without necessarily questioning foundational concepts like big, activist government and central bank management of fiat currencies. They still assume that the euro would be fine if managed correctly.

The next stage will begin when enough local currencies blow up to make people realize that the problem isn’t with specific governments or national forms of money, but with the idea of fiat currency itself. When that happens the global gold chart will look like Europe’s — but with more zeros.

652 thoughts on "This Is What Gold Does In A Currency Crisis, Euro Edition"

  1. and if bankers are so damn valuable why did China just lay off 60; they did not fire them because it would cause a world panic not my words but the very bank who let them go

  2. if you know a damn thing about money you know the less valuable your dollar is the more you will pay for gold

  3. IN GOD we trust ! NO-NO GOLD——Fort Knox GOLD; the DOLLAR walking to Zero, President Nixon and His fellow kept the GOLD

  4. IMF/WORLD BANK, Republic of China contributed Mega Trillion$ GOLD and The Major Founder with 44 countries in IMF/WORLD BANK in UN ; soon or later in 1971 has had been kicked out from UN

  5. US Dollar crisis came from the gold from Asia and China since 1944 Bretton Wood Agreement Mega Trillion$ Gold deposited in Fort Knox USA in 1971 President Nixon bleach the Agreement and cut the value in between U$D and the GOLD and kept the said GOLD under custody by 100,000 US soldiers still in Fort Knox USA and Europe……

  6. We are again seeing clearly and decisively what gold does in a currency crisis, Euro edition as gold has plummeted today by $27.30 per ounce and is down to $1,256.00. By the way, silver did even worse and plunged $1.10 per ounce all the way down to $16.86 putting it only $8.86 above its mean of $8 per ounce where it is headed..

  7. I was on Apmex the other day and seen they brought back the Freedom Girl 1 ounce silver round. Should be available after the 28th of Jan. I am waiting for the price of silver to go down to free like sokal-banker-paid-troll-ponzi-madoff-dude said. Instead it keeps going up.

    I am waiting for that free worthless silver, I want to back up my truck and haul it all off.
    Where that troll at, oh looks like he has been busy cutting and pasting stuff from Jim Cramer again.

  8. Infinite growth with finite resources and 7 billion + people. Where do we think this is going to end. A happy place? Our little soiree with oil is almost over and along with it goes our civilisation which is completely and totally dependent on oil. The current low price is to do with debt and demand, not supply.

    1. The world and its global economy can continue to grow indefinitely with no bounds whatsoever other than natural and man-made resources. The world is far less dependent today on oil for energy across the globe on a per capita basis than it has been in the past 100 years. The current price of oil has to do almost completely with a MASSIVE GLUT OF EXCESS OIL relative to demand making its price very much a supply and demand issue.

  9. So now we know that gold plunges in a currency crisis, Euro Edition as clearly demonstrated today by the $14.70 drop in gold to $1279.40. Just as expected.

    1. I’d suggest you read and attempt to comprehend my comprehensive and extensive substantive and 100% true and correct comments, dude or dudette, so you actually learn something.

  10. Gold and silver are both plunging in the London markets with gold down to $1282.00 and silver down to $17.96 as the so-called “currency crisis, Euro edition” unfolds in Europe this morning. Guess that answers that question!!!

  11. Both gold and silver continue to plunge as the Euro “currency crisis” continues to rapidly and massively intensify, so it appears we now know what gold does in a currency crisis, Euro Edition!

  12. Gold doesn’t appear to be doing anything in this Euro currency crisis and is unchanged this morning, whereas the US dollar is sure going great guns and is soaring and up over 95 on the DXY at 95.11 after being as high as 95.50 earlier today!

    1. That’s great more shiny for less paper with ink and numbers on it…I hope it goes down more then I will trade less paper for gold. But don’t worry when it goes too high exports will tank people and will start yellen and she will drop mountains of paper into the markets….

      1. The Federal Reserve has been WITHDRAWING LIQUIDITY from the bond markets through their normal TOMO and POMO procedures for many months and are now SHRINKING THEIR BALANCE SHEET.

        The Federal Reserve’s number one priority now is REDUCING THE SIZE OF ITS BALANCE SHEET which is decreasing rapidly and is now down to $3.8 trillion.

        Keep an eye on the Fed’s accelerating asset sales – CNBC

        The U.S. monetary authorities (Fed) are stepping up the contraction of their balance sheet at a surprisingly fast pace. Since peaking at $4.07 trillion last August, the Fed’s monetary base has been reduced by $259.2 billion as of the latest reserve reporting date on November 26, 2014.

        More than half of these Fed asset sales occurred between the end of October and the end of November. But the balance sheet remains an impressive $3.8 trillion — a huge difference with the pre-crisis monetary base of $820-$830 billion.

        http://www.cnbc.com/id/102246928?trknav=homestack:topnews:9

        1. They better get ready for the next round of currency wars qe4 coming up just watch that usd rise yee haa giddy up boy.

          1. are you saying the foreign federal reserve note isn’t going to go up as people run to the safe haven (rolf) of the world reserve currency?
            Cause that baby is going up, up and away until they start yellen and she will pump up the markets with more qe devaluing with twice the fervor of helicopter ben.

          2. I guess you failed English. Here let me help shareholders re wiki “A shareholder or stockholder is an individual or institution (including a corporation) that legally owns a share of stock in a public or private corporation. Shareholders are the owners of a limited company. They buy shares which represent part ownership of a company. ” Shareholders of the federal reserve obviously can be foreigners.

          3. Huh? ALL OF THE MEMBER BANK SHAREHOLDERS OF THE FEDREAL RESERVE ARE UNITED STATES CORPORATONS and there are NO FOREIGN CORPORATIONS WHO ARE DIRECT SHAREHOLDERS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE AT ALL. None, nada, zip, nil, and zilch. Yes, there are SUBSIDIARIES of banks that are owned by foreign corporations who are shareholders of the Federeal Reserve but EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE SUBSIDIARIES ARE US CORPORATIONS with banking operations in the United States.

  13. Cant wait for the EU to split and the euro goes down the toilet BUT MOST OF ALL . for the U.S. Buck to super nova .. like poof .. gone …

    1. The US dollar will continue rising for the foreseeable future on both the DXY and in purchasing power against commodities with the only upper limit on the DXY being around 164.72 where the US dollar was in February 1985.

    1. That asinine comment has been flagged as inappropriate, not to mention that it is absurd, rude, disgusting, and offensive.

  14. I am simply amazed that all these folks dont know a troll when they see one *shakes head* LOL .. 456 dollars an ounce .. LOL .. good god ..

    1. At any price above $456 per ounce gold is preposterously overvalued and that speculative froth will rapidly be blown off the top.

      THE ISSUE IS THE PROPER PRICE OF GOLD.

      An array of reasonable historical metrics can be used to establish the proper price of gold, including:

      1) Its historical mean which would put gold right around $456 per ounce

      2) Its 16:1 historical ratio against silver which would put gold right around $288 per ounce based on silver being around $18.00 per ounce

      3) Its inflation adjusted price today from its last stable historical price of $35 per ounce in 1971 which would put gold right around $400 per ounce.

      4) Its current official US government price of $42.22 per ounce which is how the approximately 8200 metric tonnes of US government gold are valued:

      http://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/goldRpt/current_report.htm

  15. US DOLLAR SOARS ABOVE 95 ON DXY TO 95.18

    The US dollar has continued soaring upwards on the DXY and is now at 95.18 after being as high earlier today as 95.50 on the news of the disastrous elections in Greece that were won by radical socialists who pitched gross financial irresponsibility to the Greek voters.

  16. BREAKING: MORE AMAZINGLY EXCELLENT NEWS FOR THE US DOLLAR

    Euro crisis looms as Greek Left lead poll: Fears victory for anti-austerity party could trigger panic – and force country into bankruptcy – Daily Mail

    With the euro at its lowest value against sterling in seven years, a Syriza victory in Greece could trigger panic in the EU and the eurozone – risking bankruptcy for Greece and its exit from the euro.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925166/Euro-crisis-looms-Greek-Left-lead-poll.html

    1. Wonder why all those countries are going bankrupt. It couldn’t be because they cant service their debt based on borrowing more from the ECB and the IMF without completely destroying what’s left of their economy, now could it?

          1. Dude where do federal reserve notes come from, the federal reserve or does it come off money trees?

          2. Are federal reserve notes created by the federal reserve which are then loaned to the gobernet (at interest) or do federal reserve notes grow on money trees?

          3. The Federal Reserve simply creates US dollars by making electronic entries in their books and offsets those with asset purchases of securities, primarily US Treasuries.

          4. Wrong the Federal foreign private reserve loans federal private notes and digital currency to the gobernet at interest.

          5. The Federal Reserve REBATES 100% OF THAT INTEREST TO THE US TREASURY EACH YEAR as it rebates 94% of its profits to the US Treasury each year and about 40% of those profits come from securities that have nothing to do with the US government and which result in profits that RENDER US TREASURIES OWNED BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE TOTALLY INTEREST FREE TO THE US TREASURY AND THE US GOVERNMENT each year.

          6. ahh wrong you just admitted that the “us treasury rebates 94% of its profits to the treasury”. Which means DIVIDENDS OF 6% WERE PAID TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE SHAREHOLDERS NOT INCLUDING OPERATING COSTS. Thus federal reserve notes cost 6%+ operating costs. Which is not 94% its less perhaps 90%. Which means around a 10% charge from the federal reserve to use federal reserve notes etc.
            Secondly, If the federal reserve is the issuer of federal reserve notes and digital currency who then gives 90+% back to the treasury how is the gobernet going to pay off its debt to the federal reserve of 18 trillion?
            Thus the use of private federal reserve notes come with a cost and that cost is the cost of PAYING DIVIDENDS , running the federal reserve, taxes, IRS, and so forth.

          7. THE FEDERAL RESERVE DOES NOT THE US TAXPAYERS AND US TREASURY EVEN ONE SINGLE CENT. INSTEAD THE FEDERAL RESERVE GENERATES AROUND $100 BILLION A YEAR IN PROFITS AND PAYS AROUND $98 BILLION A YEAR IN PROFITS TO THE US TREASURY WHICH IS A HUGE TOTAL GAIN FOR THE US TREASURY AND ITS TAXPAYERS WITH ABSOLUTELY ZERO COST.

          8. If the federal reserve doesn’t charge the treasury(or the treasury pays the fed from the money collected from the IRS via the TAXPAYER) then who pays gobernet debt owed to the private federal reserve according to you?
            a) The federal reserve the loaner of currency to the gobernet?
            b)How about the treasury do they pay the debt to the federal reserve ?
            c) does the taxpayer pay the federal reserve ?
            d) The IRS?
            e) Chris angel magically pays the gobernets bill to the PRIVATE federal reserve.
            f) the gobernet pays the private federal reserve.
            There is only one correct answer that is the ultimate funder of the federal reserve.

          9. Obviously you have trouble believing that the gobernet borrowed Federal foreign reserve notes into existence. Although you fail to explain what the need is for private foreign federal reserve notes are if the gobernet didn’t need them in the first place.
            Secondly, you obviously have trouble understanding that the taxpayer pays their taxes collected thanks to the IRS agency who then turns the currency over to the treasury. The treasury then turns it over to the private foreign federal reserve as it is the service payment on the debt that the gobernet infamously never borrowed from the federal foreign private reserve in the first place.
            Including the fact that the foreign federal reserve does not take any dividend of 6% for its shareholders as you have mentioned nor does it pay for the operation of the federal reserve itself.
            Furthermore, although the debt is 18 trillion and the federal reserve does not loan the gobernet any currency nor does it need to and the treasury does not pay the federal private reserve. I guess the debt will continue to grow. Though there is a strange mystery as to whom the gobernet owes that currency to if it didn’t need to borrow currency in the first place.
            Thus according to your answer and the aforementioned facts it is clear that you choose option E.
            YEA CHRIS ANGEL….:)

          10. There are no “foreign” Federal Reserve notes. Federal Reserve Notes are US issued and US controlled US DOLLAR CURRENCY. There is nothing “foreign” whatsoever about the Federal Reserve.

            As to the IRS it IS THE US TREASURY TAX COLLECTION DIVISION and any and all payments to the IRS are payments directly to the US Treasury.

            The US Treasury issues payments in full to each and every party holding / owning US Treasuries upon maturity, including the Federal Reserve and pays off about $7.75 trillion of US Treasuries in full each year to their holders / owners. What the US Treasury is doing, of course, is PAYING BACK THE PARTIES FROM WHOM IT BORROWED FUNDS through US Treasuries.

          11. NO FOREIGN CORPORATIONS OR OTHER ENTITIES OR INDIVIDUALS ARE SHAREHOLDERS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE AT ALL as all shareholders of the Federal Reserve are US based corporations, including some who have foreign parent ownership, but that foreign parent ownership DOES NO MAKE THEM FOREIGN CORPORATIONS AT ALL.

  17. BREAKING: MORE AMAXZING EXCELLENT NEWS FOR THE US DOLLAR

    Euro crisis looms as Greek Left lead poll: Fears victory for anti-austerity party could trigger panic – and force country into bankruptcy – Daily Mail

    With the euro at its lowest value against sterling in seven years, a Syriza victory in Greece could trigger panic in the EU and the eurozone – risking bankruptcy for Greece and its exit from the euro.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2925166/Euro-crisis-looms-Greek-Left-lead-poll.html

      1. If Greece goes under which is highly likely then Spain or Italy will go next. Bank runs started in Greece which required more emergency cash as all four main banks requested emergency aid. The runs could spread into neighboring countries… time will tell. Bet those Greeks are buying what they can for necessities.

  18. This is the best discussion EVER! Socalbeachdude is one of the best trolls I have seen. Witty. Insightfully. Fact driven. Seriously…I don’t know why people engage with these idiots. If you leave them alone, they won’t have anyone to talk to but their mother (who’s basement they live in) and their on line gaming “buddies” who think they are idiots too.

  19. US DOLLAR CLOSES AT RECORD 10 YEAR HIGH THIS WEEK

    The US dollar performed spectacularly this week and closed at a 10 year
    high of 94.99 on the DXY just a smidgeon below 95 on January 23, 2015.

    Happy days are here again! Time to rejoice and celebrate!

  20. Bankers are the scum of the earth. They are responsible for the debt and death of millions. Because of bankers there is nothing free about the free market. If you are one of these bankers then thank you for the destruction of the economy, dude

    1. That is a ludicrously false assertion, dude. Bankers are fine and outstanding FINANCIAL PROFESSIONALS and deserve proper respect, if not admiration for the professional work they do that makes the financial world go round. Show some proper respect in the future, please.

    1. You apparently don’t want to deal with the truth on anything, dude or dudette. Why are you so far removed from facts and realities?

      1. No ban please as I enjoy reading his comments.

        So much of this argumentation is based on fallacy– for example, China has a lot more gold than the 1054 metric ton figure. That is the amount they stated they had as of several years ago and they have not updated that figure for years. In 2014 alone, China purchased 2100 tons. China has the largest mining capacity in the world and none of that gold ever leaves the country. Other large consumers of gold include India, Russia and Turkey. All of these countries love the low (artificially low) price of gold. All of them are buying gold hand over fist. Demand is huge particularly when the price drops.

        Another comment I love is “Gold has nothing to do with currency or money”. That is simply laughable. “Money is gold, and nothing else.” (J.P. Morgan). Or if you prefer Alan Greenspan who recently referred to gold as the “premier currency”–“Gold Is Currency; No Fiat Currency, Including the Dollar, Can Match It”

        1. The government of China owns and holds right around 1,054 metric tonnes of gold and NO MORE AT ALL. You obviously fail to comprehend the difference between purchases of gold by CITIZENS OF CHINA with purchases of gold by the GOVERNMENT OF CHINA and those are two totally separate and distinct categories.

          The government of China is the world’s largest producer of new mining gold with a 12% global market share of the around 2,500 metric tonnes of the new gold mined annually which amounts to about 300 metric tonnes of gold per year, but the government of China SELLS ALL OF THE GOLD IT MINES into the markets rather than retaining any of it. The PRC government has clearly and explicitly stated many times that they have NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER IN INCREASING THEIR GOVERNMENT HOLDINGS OF GOLD.

          Gold is just a TINY LITTLE TRIVIAL NICHE COLLECTIBLE FUNGIBLE COMMODITY for which the primary use has always been JEWELRY since the stuff was first discovered. The annual sales of the approximately 4,600 metric tonnes of gold supply are only about $240 billion which is less than half the annual sales of Wal-Mart alone.

          Gold and silver have NEVER been money and have merely been used to mint coins with a fixed stated nominal FACE VALUE. You can use a legal tender 1 oz. gold American Eagle anywhere in the US and much of the world where dollars are accepted for its $50 face value but that’s as close as it gets to money for gold.

          The price of a commodity does not make that commodity of any FINANCIAL RELEVANCE whatsoever in relationship to money. The price of the Platinum Group of Metals (platinum, palladium, and rhodium) has nearly always been significantly higher than gold because they are much rarer and of far greater practical use than gold, but that does not make the PGMs of any financial relevance.

          The US long used a “silver standard” until that was discarded around 1870 and briefly replaced with the so-called “gold standard” which was totally discarded domestically in the US in 1933 as an entirely failed experiment. No currency can be limited to the production of some irrelevant “thingy” commodity such as gold or anything else when the population of that currency’s country is vastly expanding as was the case of the US by the 1930s.

          Artificially constraining the growth of money supplies while the population is growing substantially CAUSES DEPRESSIONS and causes countries to fail economically. Isn’t that totally obvious?

  21. This Is The Beginning Of The End For The Euro – By Michael Snyder

    The long-anticipated collapse of the euro is here. When European Central
    Bank president Mario Draghi unveiled an open-ended quantitative easing
    program worth at least 60 billion euros a month on Thursday, stocks
    soared but the euro plummeted like a rock. It hit an 11 year low of
    $1.13, and many analysts believe that it is going much, much lower than
    this.

    The speed at which the euro has been falling in recent months has
    been absolutely stunning. Less than a year ago it was hovering near
    $1.40. But since that time the crippling economic problems in southern
    Europe have gone from bad to worse, and no amount of money printing is
    going to avert the financial nightmare that is slowly unfolding right
    before our eyes.

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/beginning-end-euro

    1. from the same article: “Over the past week, seven major central banks have made moves to fight deflation.
      But the more that they cut interest rates and print money, the less
      effect that it has. And eventually, the people of the world are going
      to seriously lose confidence in these central banks as they realize what
      a sham the system really is.” – you’re actually posting a gold-bullish article among your gold-hating comments. well done.

      1. Huh? What does any of that about central banks have to do with the price of that little niche fungible commodity called gold?

  22. Great peace JR……somewhat spoiled by all the pollution below.

    Someone here is suffering major attention deficit disorder…same w@nker you see posting over at the UK Telegraph….

    He does offer a certain amount of amusement though…..good for a laugh.

  23. The only real question about the US dollar at this stage is how fast it will race upwards towards and to its all time high of 164.72 on the DXY reached on February 1985 and whether it will shoot up above that zenith.

    1. im still struggling to find a reason why strong dollar is a good thing. besides that someone’s pile of dollars can now buy more stuff?. shouldn’t the declining dollar be the sign of money going into foreign currencies/assets, thus showing global demand, investing/risk taking, and growth? at the same time making USD denominated debt being easier to repay. isn’t that a win-win scenario? or you think that the world can prosper by flooding into dollars and buying S&P and that’s it? that’s global growth? declining commodity prices? that’s growth?

      1. Isn’t it obviously why a strong dollar is a wonderful thing? One of the biggest benefits is that it will make buying BMW Rolls-Royce motor cars less expensive for us here in California.

  24. It looks like what gold does in a currency crisis, euro edition, is to PLUNGE. The stuff is now down $11 per ounce to $1291 from yesterday and continuing to fall.

    Meanwhile, what the US dollar does in the same scenario is spectacular with the US dollar soaring to as high as 95.50 breaking above 95 on the DXY and currently trading for 94.76 and poised to rapidly shoot up over 100 on the DXY.

    Happy days are here again!

      1. Happy days are here again BECAUSE THE WORLD RUNS ON US DOLLARS and they represent 63% of all global reserves and are used in more than 83% of all global transactions! A strong dollar makes for a strong global economy and increases the value of the majority of global reserves.

          1. i don’t understand. if someone owes me lots of $, wouldn’t it be more difficult for that person to pay me if the dollar costs more of his domestic currency? he has to buy dollars in most cases since you’ve said 83% of all global transactions are in USD.

          2. Work on attempting to understand and you’ll possibly figure it out, dude or dudette.

  25. if its only one guy, socal beach has a lot to type, im grateful some one decides to tell us the real truth about the yellow metal, what bothers me is this continuos need to suppress the gold price, if its not worth it, then dont buy it, buy bonds, stocks and derivatives and the world will be a better place.

  26. Bankerdude, gold has been money for 5000 years. You know how long the Federal Reserve Inc. debt note has been around for? 44 years, DOH! Since’71 its been all down hill, debt on top of debt.

    I am pretty sure within the next the twenty years your paper federal reserve debt notes will be totally worthless.

    You should be ashamed of yourself posting this silly non sense on this
    site. Sure hope it pays well and I hope your parents don’t see it either. If you were my son I would ask you for my money back for college.

    1. Gold is just a TINY LITTLE TRIVIAL NICHE COLLECTIBLE FUNGIBLE COMMODITY for which the primary use has always been JEWELRY since the stuff was first discovered. The annual sales of the approximately 4,600 metric tonnes of gold supply are only about $240 billion which is less than half the annual sales of Wal-Mart alone.

      Gold and silver have NEVER been money and have merely been used to mint coins with a fixed stated nominal FACE VALUE. You can use a legal tender 1 oz. gold American Eagle anywhere in the US and much of the world where dollars are accepted for its $50 face value but that’s as close as it gets to money for gold.

      The price of a commodity does not make that commodity of any FINANCIAL RELEVANCE whatsoever in relationship to money. The price of the Platinum Group of Metals (platinum, palladium, and rhodium) has nearly always been significantly higher than gold because they are much rarer and of far greater practical use than gold, but that does not make the PGMs of any financial relevance.

      The US long used a “silver standard” until that was discarded around 1870 and briefly replaced with the so-called “gold standard” which was totally discarded domestically in the US in 1933 as an entirely failed experiment. No currency can be limited to the production of some irrelevant “thingy” commodity such as gold or anything else when the population of that currency’s country is vastly expanding as was the case of the US by the 1930s.

      Artificially constraining the growth of money supplies while the population is growing substantially CAUSES DEPRESSIONS and causes countries to fail economically. Isn’t that totally obvious?

      1. It’s interesting reading your arguments SBD but history has proven that all fiat currencies created in unlimited amounts (paper including digital) have a nasty tendency to devalue. When citizens using that said currency notice regular price increases (ie the Russian ruble collapse recently of about 50%) they loose confidence in that pretty piece of worthless paper. Fiat currencies are only as good as peoples faith or trust in that they keep their value aka purchasing power. Though central banksters create unlimited amounts by increasing the; base money supply, unsustainable credit through zirp policies, digital creation, and so forth. This increases the total money supply which devalues the currency hence inflation rises as a direct result and confidence in the currency is lost.

        This has been proven since the first time fiat currency was dreamed up in China several hundred years ago (It was devalued until it became worthless). Since then well over 600 currencies from just the letter a and half of b, have all gone to their true value of 0.00. Why, because all central banksters lend unlimited currency to gobernets until that debt becomes unsustainable to service and the country goes bankrupt while banksters have stolen real assets.

        Thus one can argue the virtue currency but all currencies are created in unlimited amounts as gobernets continue to borrow unlimited amounts. If they don’t they will not get re-elected(re qe programs). Therefore each successive gobernet kicks the debt can down the road into the future until the time the debt cannot be serviced after consuming well over 100% GDP.

        Conversely, gold cannot be devalued by unlimited gobernet borrowing and unlimited central bank printing/ credit creation/ digitalising since it is finite. Thus gold unlike fiat currency is a store of value aka purchasing power over thousands of years unlike any fiat currency. Sure a gobernet like Rome can change the gold content of the coin but its very obvious and gresham’s law takes effect.

        Therefore fiat currencies are not money because they fail miserably as a store of value over a long period of time. Although gold is money; “Gold is money par excellence” Jim Richards, “gold is money” Greenspan, J Rogers if gold goes below 1000. “I hope I am smart enough to buy more”…”I am not selling my gold”, John Williams “the safe haven flight will be to gold” ……..ad nauseam.

        Depressions are brought about by unlimited currency creation. When gobernets cannot continue to increase borrowing (aka currency creation of all kinds) and service their debt at the same time. Unlimited borrowing requires unlimited currency creation though if one cannot service the interest on accrued debt unlimited borrowing comes to a halt. Hence a deflationary crash is set in motion as the CITIZENS have no currency to spend as they are maxed out on debt as is the gobernet. If citizens are loosing purchasing power thanks to inflation (aka unlimited currency creation) they stop spending because wages are falling. Thus the deflationary spiral is begun and gobernets borrowing more currency (qe) to monetise the debt is not a solution as it increases the debt to GDP causing even more deflation to occur as the CITIZENS purchasing power is destroyed at an increasing rate hence they spend even less adding to the deflationary spiral.

        Therefore unlimited currency creation is unsustainable as purchasing power is lost and debt to GDP soars(thanks to gobernet qe borrowing, wars etc) creating unserviceable debt payments. At the same time real GDP growth tanks as no one is buying products since they don’t have any currency to spend thanks to a devalued dollar. This is easy to confirm by consumption of raw materials, retail store bankruptcies, housing/stock market bubbles, inflation(shadow stats), and so forth that we see currently occurring around the world.

        Unless citizens are given some of that currency creation (qe) funds deflation will continue as wages must rise as a response to currency creation. In this manner CITIZENS can buy products once again and the economy is creating real GDP growth from manufactured goods(as opposed to borrowing thanks to zirp creating fake GDP growth. One cannot borrow more to pay off existing debt try that with a credit card and a line of credit.).

        Otherwise the deflationary spiral will only get worse as the gobernet initiates qe 4+ further destroying purchasing power of the dollar thus impoverishing the middle class thereby destroying its own tax base and ultimately causing its own bankruptcy.

        In summary, gold is money as it stores wealth (not price in fiat paper) over thousands of years while every single currency in history reverts to its true value of 0.00. This is caused by unlimited currency creation that causes a loss of confidence as purchasing power tanks devaluing the currency leading to its ultimate demise into the trash bin of history.

        Therefore fiat currencies are not money as they do not store wealth but rather leak. Currency just transfers wealth to the issuer of that currency and those who use it first. (ie the fed private reserve aka banksters and the gobernet) Gold prevents that from occurring which is why banksters and gobernet hate it and is the reason why it was written into the constitution. This is the reason why the constitution was changed to profit the foreign private federal reserve by stealing wealth via stealth.

        1. History has proven nothing whatsoever of the sort you assert, dude. As to the Russian ruble, it is doing just fine and its relatively minor decrease in exchange rate is resulting in HUGE WINDFALL NET GAINS FOR RUSSIAN EXPORTS. Are you really not aware of that? Are you also not aware that imports (which have repriced upwards somewhat) in Russia account for only about 10% of Russia’s GDP?

          1. ahem you better read history ever hear of the; assignat, confederate dollar, greenback ad nauseam
            So what if you put your exports on sale but imports go up?
            Its great if you don’t import ANYTHING and it might not be too bad for Russia but they were spending billions in reserves to prop up their dollar to prevent bank runs. Which is why they floated their currency otherwise the would have gone bankrupt.

            Although all this does is cause other countries to devalue their currency in order to compete.
            In addition, Russian spending must be curtained for oil exploration, and so forth thus revenues drop. Hence its DEFLATIONARY.

          2. Well anyone holding gold in history rather than over 600+ currencies throughout history did better when their fiat currency was being devalued by unlimited currency creation. History proves this fact.

          3. Every fiat currency in history has previously been devalued into worthlessness lol Your monetary history knowledge is sadly lacking I suggest that you stat studying fiat currencies as you are obviously painfully ignorant of monetary history. Are you saying the Reich mark never existed, the dinar, Assignat, the Zimbabwe dollar ? Are you now trying to rewrite history ?
            Maybe you contest the fact that increased total money supply causes prices to increase like those in the Weimar republic thought and printed currency on; cloth, wood, and metal because they ran out of paper ! ahahaha now that’s funny dude!
            So what if exports are at bargain prices do you think that their oil becomes more competitive ? Especially when it takes x rubles to get it from the ground? Silly assertion… unknown to the wise one a falling ruble hurts their oil companies and if it goes too low guess what? They stop production not only that workers are laid off the country loses its tax base and the country goes bankrupt. How’s that for falling export prices.lol

    1. OKay, now you’ve lost me because you lied. “Jim Rogers is quite correct and estimates gold will reach around $900 per ounce during 2015 ” I listened to it. He said “If Gold goes down 50%, that is between $900 and $1,000. I didn’t specifically mean $900. Yeah, it could go to $900, but that is part of the bottoming process.” He did not specifically mean $900. He was just saying gold will go down a lot from $1,800, and used an arbitrary number of 50% to say it could do to $900. But he said he is not a trader, no one should take his word for a bottom, and he does not know where it will be. So you saying he estimates gold around $900 during 2015? LOOSE interpretation to fit your point, and that is not honest.

      1. The bottom line, of course, is that my STATEMENT IS 100% CORRECT, and that James Beeland Rogers, Jr. indeed stated that the US dollar could fall to $900 in 2015. Hellllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooo?

  27. That overpriced yellow commodity is again plunging and is down to $1296 per ounce and with its next $100 point drop will be back to $1196 and then with another $100 point drop will be at $1096 which will be a 4 year low for the preposterously overpriced stuff. Gold is just one of the world’s 27 major commodities and commodities have been plunging for the past 4 years and the Bloomberg Commodity Index is now at a 12 year low not seen since 2002.

    The US dollar, by contrast, has been skyrocketing in purchasing power against commodities for the past 4 years and is now soaring in value on the DXY hitting a more than 10 year high of over 94 with a massive increase in value today on the DXY.

    1. Gold is not a commodity it is real money just like silver and copper and bronze and etc. It has real uses and is a store of wealth, unlike you silly paper that has no value and buy anything cept for worthless hyperinflationary crap in a capital destrpoyed unemployed nation of 90% like the US, Gold would be twice at least if the Comex wasnt enaging in financial repression with Jp Morgan as has been proven, the Fed is running it with raids, terror, threats, and paper flooding of the gold market with faking it and coordinating international efforts at price fixing and suppression in terms of dollars as has been proven by the indictments against European banks engaging in the fraud under coordination of the Fed, the Comex has NOT DELIVERED ON ANY GOLD since 2012 WHATSOEVER DESPITE RECORD DEMAND AND DWINDLING SUPPLY because prices have been kept below the price of production. the price fell 250 after the Ofuhrer met with his masters JP Morgan and he was told what to do to suppress the gold price next day raids and threats while ole Jp flooded the paper market with no gold and just paper 100 times at least the so called amount in the Comex with no intention of ever send real gold out into the market cause their is none…..they have been settling contracts with paper currency LOLOL Its like goin into walmart and wanting a TV paying for it and then not getting it and them saying we’ll pay you back with dollars after they collect the fees and taxes LOLOL

      1. GOLD IS NOTHING BUT A COMMODITY. And a preposterously overpriced commodity that was driven to manic speculative levels from which it has collapsed about 40% since April 2011.

        Gold is NOT ACCEPTED AS MONEY FOR A FLOATING EXCHANGE VALUE ANYWHERE in the world except with the Krugerrand in South Africa which is the only legal tender gold coin that has ever been issued without a nominal stated face value.

        Gold has NOTHING TO DO WITH CURRENCY OR MONEY or than that it still costs far too much money, but fortunately that situation is being rectified as the yellow stuff plummets.

        Gold and other metals have NEVER BEEN MONEY FOR FLOATING EXCHANGE VALUES. Those metals have simply been used as a MEDIUM WITH WHICH TO MINT COINS WITH A MONETARY VALUE and it is the NOMINAL STATED AMOUNT on those coins which is the MONETARY VALUE and not the metals with which those coins were minted.

        In the US you are perfectly welcome to use a legal US Mint 1 oz. gold American Eagle or other coin for its STATE NOMINAL VALUE OF $50 (or $20 as the case may be depending on the 1 oz. coin) at any establishment that takes legal tender US currency in the US or elsewhere. And only to the extent of its face value is that legal US tender gold coin money or currency at all.

        1. Actually the constitution outlines gold and silver as legal tender. Though private federal reserve note was added later as an amendment to the constitution. Thus in reality foreign federal private reserve notes are unconstitutional.Now various states have made gold/silver legal tender and others are considering it.

          1. The US Constitution does no such thing at all relative to the federal government. Its only reference to gold and silver is to PROHIBIT STATES FROM ISSUING CURRENCIES OTHER THAN IN THOSE METALS and that has no bearing whatsoever on the federal government.

          2. No sales are prohibited in gold or silver though legal tender laws made foreign federal private banking notes legal tender long after the constitution was signed. This is why the constitution was amended. Pervious to that only gold/silver was legal tender.

          3. lame answer is that the best you can come up with…lol try reading the constitution and then the later amendments for a change.

          4. Nowhere in the US Constitution including its amendments is anything stated whatsoever regarding the form of money and currency of the federal government of the USA.

          5. I’ve read the US Constitution and its amendments, but OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE NOT BOTHERED TO EITHER READ AND/OR COMPREHEND IT AT ALL based on your comment. I’d suggest you actually go read it and attempt to comprehend it at:

            http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

            Nowhere in the US Constitution including its amendments is anything
            stated whatsoever regarding the form of money and currency of the
            federal government of the USA.

            The only reference in the US Constituion at all to metals is in Article 1 Section 10 of the US Constitution which ONLY APPLIES TO STATES regarding the creating and form of currencies and has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ITSELF.

      2. Your preposterous assertions regarding COMEX are utterly bogus and categorically and patently false.

        There is obviously ONLY EVER ONE DEED TO A HOUSE and the very same is true of each COMEX commodities contract. When a contract is sold to another party, the right of delivery of the good specified by the contract fully passes to the other party.

        If the COMEX contract transacts 100 times or 1000 time or 1,000,000 times during its duration that doesn’t increase the number contracts relative to the commodity specified in the contract as ONLY THE SINGLE PARTY HOLDING THE CONTRACT UPON MATURITY HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE DELIVERY OF THE GOODS SPECIFIED IN THAT CONTRACT as all other parties have relinquished those rights along the way by transferring the contract to successor parties.

        What is so difficult for you to comprehend about that simple process?

        1. The one holding the comex contract can only take delivery of said goods only if they actually exist. ie the entire years supply of gold is traded in a day/s on the comex. In other words the paper etf outnumbers the commodity by factors of 50, 100, 120+ to one. Therefore its a paper ponzi scheme that artificially controls or supresses the price of commodities.

          1. Every single COMEX contract for gold has the EXACT AMOUNT OF GOLD SPECIFIED IN THE CONTRACT FOR DELIVERY STORED IN ONE OF THE COMEX CERTIFIED DEPOSITORIES which is a CME / COMEX REQUIREMENT FOR THE CONTRACT T BE ISSUED.

            Your assertions regarding COMEX are totally false and bogus. A COMEX contract can be traded 100 times or more during its life but that DOES NOT MEAN THERE IS EVER MORE THAN THAT SINGLE CONTRACT UPON WHICH DELIVERY CAN BE TAKEN WHEN IT MATURES AND IS SETTLED. Obviously, ONLY THE SINGLE PARTY HOLDING THAT CONTRACT AT THE TIME OF MATURITY RECEIVE THE SETTLEMENT OF THAT CONTRACT either by delivery of the goods specified or cash in lieu thereof if three is any gain.

          2. Who cares what is specified on the contract if etf paper contracts do not reflect physical gold available for delivery. One cannot deliver physical gold that does not exist.
            Thus everything else you mention is absurd. Many contracts can be required to be delivered on any one day. The simple fact is that etf gold is a Ponzi scheme backed by 100 etf gold to 1 physical ounce or more.

          3. Your assertions regarding COMEX are totally and categorically false, not to mention mindbogglingly clueless and absurd.

            You obviously need to learn about how COMEX functions.

            All commodities contracts on COMEX are backed by the exact amount of metal specified in those contracts and NO CONTRACTS ARE EVER ISSUED BY COMES THAT ARE NOT FULLY BACKED BY THE EXACT AMOUNT OF METAL SPECIFIED IN THE CONTRACT AND ON DEPOSIT AT THE COMEX VAULTS. Never. Ever.

            Gold Futures Contract Specs – CME Group

            http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/gold_contract_specifications.html

          4. WOW have you ever looked at comex inventories? The amount available for delivery does not match outstanding etf claims. Thus physical gold represented by etf gold is not redeemable into physical gold. Thus its a Ponzi scheme. Basic math knowledge can accomplish this fact.
            Only a tiny percent of comex etf can be redeemable into physical gold just like fractional reserve banking where only a tiny amount of currency on deposit can be withdrawn compared to the total deposits held by any bank.
            Once again you prove your ignorance about basic concepts.

          5. You must not be aware that COMEX authorizes the use of a number of APPROVED DEPOSITORIES FOR GOLD and other commodities, and does not provide much storage for it at any of the CME owned facilities.

            There is no such thing as “fractional reserve banking” at all as you falsely assert. NO BANK CAN EVER LEND OUT MORE THAN 100% OF THE AGGREGATE DEPOSIT AMOUNT OF ITS DEPOSITORS and where RESERVE REQUIREMENTS ARE APPLICABLE IT AN ONLY LEND OUT THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF THOSE DEPOSITS LESS THE 3% TO 5% RESERVE REQUIREMENT on those deposits.

            As to IGNORANCE, dude, you REALLY TAKE THE CAKE FOR THAT.based on your endless stupid, false, and nonsensical assertions which are so bogus as to be just mindboggling.

          6. Who cares where the gold is stored the fact is they can not cover the currently trading etf paper gold on the comex by physical gold in storage.
            Complete ignorance, all banks can loan and do loan out more than deposits like central banks. Its called cooking the books just like a central bank can lease gold to x bank though both banks can claim that they have the “gold” on their books !
            If fractional reserve banking did not exist and the base money is only a few trillion how did banks create the total money supply by magic? Absurd notion that banks do not loan out more than they have on deposit. This is why bank runs occur. Banks do not have enough fiat currency on hand to cover fiat currency deposits based on reserve requirements let alone lines of credit, and so forth. Insanity !

      3. Speaking of Wal-Mart, are you aware that the total annual global gold sales of around 4,650 metric tonnes amount to only about $234 billion which is less than half the annual retail sales of Wal-Mart?

    2. The only reason why the usd is going up as it is perceived as the best option to other currencies. Therefore its seen as a safe haven. Gold is not a true commodity in that the majority is held as a type of investment ..coins, bars, jewelry, etc
      Most commodities are not held as mostly an investment ie silver, copper, steel, etc
      Gold acts inversely of the usd for much of history. Thus when the usd goes up because people are fleeing into it gold usually goes down. Conversely the reverse is true also which is why for the past decade the usd was tanking and gold was going up.
      Furthermore the only reason why the stock markets are going up is because of qe providing cheap money which is borrowed thanks to zirp and qe policies. Not because of increased buying of goods manufactured creating real GDP growth from the middle class. Which is why qe benefits the 1% who have increased their wealth by at least 20% thanks to it.

      1. The US dollar is soaring for a wide variety of reasons, and of course, will continue to do as it glides up through 90 and then 100 on the DXY.

        Gold is NOTHING BUT A COMMODITY, and a PREPOSTEROUSLY OVERPRICED COMMODITY on its way towards and to its mean of $466 per ounce and then lower.

        1. paper is a commodity, bonds are a commodity(paper), thus they can be used as a tradable commodity currency. Gold has one primary purpose a store of wealth which is why it is held for centuries unlike paper. Thus as more liquidity flows into markets (paper and digital) stock markets rise in price so will gold.

          1. WHAT IS ON THE PAPER IS THE VALUE, dude, and not the price of the piece of paper. As to gold, its PRIMARY PURPOSE HAS ALWAYS BEEN JEWELRY which has traditionally accounted for 70% or more of the use of gold since the stuff was first discovered. Gold is certainly not any sort of “store of value” when it is PREPOSTEROUSLY OVERPRICED AS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR YEARS AND IS PLUNGING IN VALUE. OBVIOUSLY. Hellllllllllllllloooooooo?

            Over the past nearly 4 years since gold hit its manic speculative high of $1927, it has plummeted in price by $633 per ounce which is a a 32.8% plunge in its price. Anyone who purchased gold in early April for an amount of $100,000 would have now lost $32,800 of that $100,000 and would have a balance of only $67,200 left.

            The price of gold is on its way towards and to is mean of $456 per ounce and then headed lower towards its current US government official price of $42.22 per ounce.

          2. How much value is there in a currency bill perhaps .01 cent of paper and .01 ink? There is virtually no value in a piece of paper.
            Compared to gold, it must be mined, its rare (especially compared to renewable paper ie trees) and even more so digitalised a bunch on number typed into a computer.
            Now compare paper to gold or digital numbers which is more valuable ? Here I will trade you your gold for a piece of paper wth ink on it or better yet I will email you some numbers and you give me your gold…lol
            Read my comment on mean compared to unlimited currency creation.

          3. How much value is there in ELECTRONS? The paper on which currency is printed IS IMMATERIAL TO THE VALUE OF THE CURRENCY – obviously. IT IS WHAT IS STATED ON THAT PAPER OR CONTAINED IN THOSE ELECTRONS THAT IS THE VALUE – obviously.

            Seriously, ARE YOU REALLY THAT STOOOOOOOOOOOOPID?

          4. There is no value in digital digits that can be produced in infinite quantities by anyone. Thus digital currency is only numbers typed into a computer or digits printed on paper. There is no intrinsic value to digits, none what so ever are you that stupid to believe that digits created by anyone at any time either digital or on paper are worth something ROLF?
            ahh If the value paper is worthless and digits are worthless, are not those printed digits on common pretty paper worthless unless someone has confidence in that worthless piece of paper based on yesterdays experience that someone else accepted them in exchange for their goods? hmm …
            Now what happens if I don’t want your pretty pieces of paper with digits then what do you do? Perhaps trade with some thing like a medium of exchange like gold has been for thousands of years as determined by the markets and human experience? According to you think that the coincidence of wants can be satisfied with paper and ink or digits on a computer though I beg to differ. I want something of value in exchange for my goods !

          5. Your utter lack of comprehension as to currencies is beyond severely deficient, dude, and that blathering comment is not even slightly worthy of any substantive response as its absurdity speaks loudly and clearly for itself.

          6. What do you fail to understand that paper and digits have no value compared to gold that was chosen as a medium of exchange thousands of years ago long before you were born ?
            Perhaps you fail to understand the coincidence of wants cant be satisfied by trading paper with numbers on it or digits typed into a computer for a bag of drugs?
            Perhaps drugs have eaten away your brain to the extent that your incoherent rambling insults are of no value except to prove that you have nothing of substance to say.

          7. What you fail to understand is that in the United States the ONLY LEGAL TENDER FORM OF CURRENCY IS US DOLLARS and that gold and silver are NOT ACCEPTED AS ANY FORM OF CURRENCY AT ALL FOR A FLOATING COMMODITIES VALUE.

            The only extent to which gold and silver coins may be used in the US is with legal tender US Mint coins for their STATED NOMINAL FACE VALUES which in the case of a 1 oz. silver American Eagle is $1.900 and in the case of a 1 oz. gold American Eagle is $50.00.

          8. lol so you think I would trade my goods for a piece of paper and numbers ? Here let me give you paper and numbers and you give me your silver sound good?

  28. US DOLLAR METEORICALLY SKYROCKETS IN VALUE ON DXY

    The US dollar literally skyrocketed in value today on the DXY and soared to 94.18 after rising 1.44 points on the DXY in one of its biggest gains ever on the DXY. The US dollar is likely to race up towards 100 and then 110 on the DXY as the Euro plummets towards and to 1:1 parity with the US dollar.

    Happy days are here again!

    1. Its goin down thats the credit derivatives being liquadated before the collapse and the Fed buying Tbills while JP Morgan simulate phony deman with the interest rate derivative spread your insane lies somewhere else

  29. THE ISSUE IS THE PROPER PRICE OF GOLD.

    An array of reasonable historical metrics can be used to establish the proper price of gold, including:

    1) Its historical mean which would put gold right around $456 per ounce

    2) Its 16:1 historical ratio against silver which would put gold right around $292 per ounce based on silver being around $18.27 per ounce

    3) Its inflation adjusted price today from its last stable historical price of $35 per ounce in 1971 which would put gold right around $400 per ounce.

    4) Its current official US government price of $42.22 per ounce which is how the approximately 8200 metric tonnes of US government gold are valued:

    http://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/goldRpt/current_report.htm

    1. Those are all lie the US has no Gold China is all now to pay off the debts, how about China taking JP Morgan’s HQ on the default and the US literally about to lose Reserve status on the shit paper

      1. Your assertions are totally false and utterly bogus.

        As to the US government’s approximately 8,200 metric tonnes of gold it is worth only a little more than $11 billion according to the latest US Treasury monthly report based on the current official US government value of $42.22 per ounce, and you can read that report at:

        http://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/goldRpt/current_report.htm

        The government of China only has 1,054 metric tonnes of gold which is only worth about $60 billion at current market value.

        China is the most EGREGIOUS MONEY AND CREDIT CREATOR IN THE WORLD AND CREATED A $23 TRILLION MONEY AND CREDIT BUBBLE over the past 10 years despite the fact that its economy is less than 50% the size of the US economy in which the Federal Reserve has only increased the MONETARY BASE BY AROUND $3 TRILLION during the same period of time.

        China is a ludicrous, laughable, and preposterous CREDIT BUBBLE WRECKAGE. The renminbi has ZERO CREDIBILITY AS A CURRENCY. Are you not aware, Erik, that China “printed” $23 trillion in renminbi over the past 10 years and that China is BY FAR THE MOST EGREGIOUS MONEY PRINTER IN THE WORLD.

        During the same time that China increased its money supply by $23 TRILLION, the Federal Reserve only increased the MONETARY BASE (not the money supply) in the US by $3 trillion China’s economy is about HALF THE SIZE OF THE US.

        China has NO BANKING OPERATIONS IN THE US other than a single branch of the PBOC in New York with a very limited correspondent branch in Los Angeles.

        China created over $23 TRILLION IN NEW MONEY to do so making China by far the MOST EGREGIOUS MONEY PRINTER IN THE WORLD and they created an unprecedented debt bubble as a result of their unprecedented credit and money creation spree and it is now imploding.

        Fitch says China credit bubble unprecedented in modern world history

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/10123507/Fitch-says-China-credit-bubble-unprecedented-in-modern-world-history.html

        What China did with credit and money creation over the past 10 years makes the US look like a bunch of little penny pinching pikers.

        China’s economy is a CATASTROPHIC DISASTER drowning in tens of trillions of dollars of BAD LOANS for which there is highly inadequate collateral and a TSUNAMI OF BANKRUPTCIES IMMINENT AND ALREADY HAPPENING.

        China’s Li Keqiang warns investors to prepare for wave of bankruptcies – Guardian

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/china-li-keqiang-wans-investors-bankruptcies

        How China Fooled The World (Full Documentary)

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwiEKVrZFWc

        1. Actually since the repeal of glass steagall etc there are 600-700 TRILLION in derivatives. Now compare that to a puny 23 TRILLION and who is worse off? Where do you think the next crash will occur, hmm perhaps the energy sector junk bonds in America ?

          1. There are actually more than $1 quadrillion in nominal face value of derivatives, but the actual amount of money actually involved in derivatives is a very tiny portion of their nominal face amount. It is a lot like the face value of life insurance policies and many derivative like life insurance policies (particularly term policies) expire worthless. As to junk bonds they are already plunging particularly in the “energy sector” as yields soar due to substantially increased risk.

          2. How are derivatives a “Ponzi scheme” at all? They certainly are GAMBLING BETS but in no way does that make them any sort of a “Ponzi scheme” at all.

          3. ahem similar to currencies where there is virtually nothing that backs them.

            “A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator”

            .
            Physical gold does not exist for delivery of contracts and the gold etf outnumbers the physical available for delivery. Including the fact that gold imperfectly reflects the total world currency supply.
            The price of gold etf is manipulated by the number of contracts bought or sold by large investors which include central banks that purchase etf gold with unlimited currency supplies. Thus central banks manipulate gold etf upward or downward.
            Therefore the central banks by creating unlimited currency just create more currency which is not profit but is rather rigging the game. Hence its a Ponzi scheme.

          4. Your bogus assertions regarding COMEX are totally false. Each and every futures contract for gold is BACKED BY THE EXACT AMOUNT OF GOLD THAT IS SPECIFIED IN EACH CONTRACT AND THAT GOLD IS STORED FROM THE INCEPTION OF THE CONTRACT UP THROUGH SETTLEMENT OF THAT CONTRACT IN A COMEX APPROVED DEPOSITORY.

            You obviously need to learn about how COMEX functions.

            All commodities contracts on COMEX are backed by the exact amount of metal specified in those contracts and NO CONTRACTS ARE EVER ISSUED BY COMES THAT ARE NOT FULLY BACKED BY THE EXACT AMOUNT OF METAL SPECIFIED IN THE CONTRACT AND ON DEPOSIT AT THE COMEX VAULTS. Never. Ever.

            Gold Futures Contract Specs – CME Group

            http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/gold_contract_specifications.html

          5. Once again there is not enough physical gold deliverable by comex (just look at its inventory) to satisfy all outstanding claims. Thus like a bank it will go bankrupt (BANK RUN) if several large players demand delivery as the GOLD DOES NOT EXIST. COMEX DOES NOT STORE A YEARS WORTH OF WORLD GOLD PRODUCTION TRADED IN A DAY/S. Its a Ponzi scheme…

          6. Once again, your assertions are TOTALLY FALSE regarding COMEX and your lack of understanding of COMEX contracts is beyond severely deficient. THERE IS A PRECISE EQUAL AMOUNT OF GOLD IN COMEX DEPOSITORIES TO COVER EACH AND EVERY OUTSTANDING GOLD CONTRACT ISSUED BY COMEX.

            What you are doing is not comprehending that when A SINGLE COMEX contract trades hundreds of times that DOES NOT RESULT IN THERE BEING HUNDREDS OF CONTRACTS BUT RATHER THERE IS SIMPLE ONE SINGLE CONTRACT THAT HAS PASSED FROM ONE PARTY TO ANOTHER, ETC. AND ONLY THE SINGLE PARTY HOLDING THAT CONTRACT AT MATURITY – OBVIOUSLY – IS ENTITLED TO TAKE DELIVERY OF THE GOLD SPECIFIED IN THAT CONTRACT.

            What is so difficult for you to comprehend about that? At no time are the number of COMEX contracts issued for gold in any way out of balance with the exact amount of gold specified in each and every one of those contracts being in a COMEX approved depository.

          7. no look at comex inventory available for delivery then compare with outstanding claims. One cannot trade a years worth of physical production in one day or a few days when only a few hundred thousand or million ounces are registered including available for delivery. COMEX does not store the world production of gold for an ENTIRE YEAR IN ADVANCE(just for one trading day…)
            Why cant you comprehend that the amount traded on comex exceeds the ENTIRE WORLD PRODUCTION OF GOLD IN ONE DAY ! Thus the claims for physical gold are LEVERAGED at 100-1+.

          8. Once again you are making BLATANTLY FALSE AND TOTALLY BOGUS ASSERTIONS that have ZERO BASIS IN REALITY.

            I have clearly explained to you precisely and perfectly how COMEX gold contracts work and given you the exact link to the specification on the CME COMEX gold contracts, which obviously you didn’t both to read at all or even attempt to comprehend.

            Your assertions regarding COMEX trading volumes are DEAD WRONG and the fact is that COMEX only even HANDLES ABOUT 10% OF THE ANNUAL GLOBAL TRADE IN GOLD with most of that being done through the markets in London governed by the LBMA on forward, future, and spot transactions in gold.

            Jeffrey Christian has also gone over this in great detail multiple times and there is no valid reason for YOUR UTTER FAILURE TO COMPREHEND COMEX AT ALL..

          9. Rolf lol why don’t you quote the available amount of gold for delivery on the comex then compare it to the number of contracts in existence? hehe
            I have clearly explained how the comex is LEVERAGED though you fail to understand basic math.
            It doesn’t matter how much the comex handles of world gold trade. What matters is if it actually has the physical gold in storage available to deliver that matches all etf outstanding gold claims that are trading. Which it does not have as witnessed by inventory stats. Its quite simple.

          10. Oh, so you’re getting your bogus notions from the GOOBERS AGAINST TRUTH ASSOCIATION. That explains all of your absurd and BLATANTLY FALSE NONSENSE. dude.

          11. Your assertions regarding COMEX are TOTALLY FALSE AND UTTERLY BOGUS and not worth a second more of my time as I have already very clearly explained COMEX in full detail to you.

          12. really prove to me that comex has enough physical gold available on hand in its inventories for delivery on all contracts in say a week… lol

    2. Another fact that is twisted. Man, you love twisting things. “3) Its inflation adjusted price today from its last stable historical price of $35 per ounce in 1971 which would put gold right around $400 per ounce.” gold was also $35 per ounce in 1961. Why not use it from that point? Gold was $35 in 1951. Why not use it there. We were pegged at $35 per ounce for generations. the real level of gold probably was much higher than that by 1971, but it had to remain there since it was pegged there. Using that number and time period is like those that use silver at $50 per ounce back in the days of the Hunts and showing where silver “should be” after inflation based on that false number. You do the same thing though, and that is dishonest. it is truth, and yet dishonest truth, because the facts are twisted.

      1. There was PRACTICALLY NO INFLATION IN THE US AT ALL from the 1950s up until 1971. Are you not aware of that?

        1. If there was no inflation(aka currency creation ) until 1971 from the creation of the fed reserve 1913 then why did prices across the board increase ? Why are they not the same as in 1913 if what you claim is true?

          1. Prices of goods and services in the US increased very little during the period from 1913 until 1971 and actually decreased significantly during the little financial blips of the 1930s.

          2. Well why did prices rise if what you claim is correct?
            One cannot have one without the other. Either prices increased or they didn’t due to inflation aka currency creation or they did not. i

          3. Most price increases or decreases in goods and services have nothing whatsoever to do with the US dollar and never have.

            As to the value of the US dollar over the past 100 yeas…

            No, the dollar did NOT really lose 95% of its value since 1913

            Let us take at the period from 1913-2006, where we have complete data. So what do they mean, when they say the dollar lost 95.1% of its value in those 93 years? Essentially, an average good/service that cost $1 in 2006, used to be priced at 4.9 cents in 1913. In other words, the average price level of goods/services increased by 1930% since 1913. True, but guess what, average earned income increased by 6560% during the same time period. Average earned income rose from $740/yr in 1913 to $49,300/yr in 2006. Adjusting for inflation, $740/yr in 1913 is $15,000/yr in 2006 dollars. Average incomes, not only kept pace, but beat price inflation by 230%.

            So does it make any sense all to say the dollar lost value? In reality, the REAL purchasing power of the average American, has increased by 230% in the past century. Sure, prices were cheap in 1913, but $740/yr doesn’t buy you a whole lot, not anymore than 15,000/yr today.

            http://realfactbias.blogspot.com/2012/02/no-dollar-did-not-really-lose-95-of-its.html

          4. Silly here is a simple question for you. If the fed private reserve creates fiat currency out of nothing and loans it to the gobernet with interest how is that interest paid off ?
            Once you can answer this question correctly then your whole argument will clearly be either incorrect or correct. I await your answer.

          5. Huh? Both principle and interest on US Treasuries have to be paid in full by the US government BY TAX REVENUES OR BY REPLACEMENT BORROWING THROUGH THE ISSUANCE OF NEW REPLACEMENT US TREASURIES.

            About $7.75 trillion in US Treasuries are PAID IN FULL AT MATURITY EACH YEAR which is why the US Treasuries issues more than $8.75 trillion in new US Treasuries each year to cover the $7.75 trillion paid to holders of matured US Treasuries and to finance around an an additional $1 trillion in new federal deficits added to the total aggregate federal debt each year. The Fiscal 2014 deficit added to the total federal debt was $1.086 trillion and total outstanding US federal debt is now over $18 trillion.

          6. Ahh now we are getting some where. So where do tax revenues come from ? Are they not federal reserve notes ?
            Now you admit replacement borrowing occurs via treasuries are they not bought by the primary dealers that exchange them for federal reserve notes(or digital currency) ?
            Hence the ultimate issuer of currency is the federal reserve, then fractional reserve banking?

          7. Tax revenues are now nearly all paid to the US government ELECTRONICALLY WITH US DOLLARS.

            As to US Treasuries, Primary Dealers are simply the FIRST PURCHASER OF NEWLY ISSUED US TREASURIES FROM THE US TREASURY in order to handle the sales of those US Treasuries in the bond markets. They consist of the top 20 banks in the US. Those dealers pay the US Treasury for those Treasuries and then sell them to retail customers in the markets.

            As to “fractional reserve banking” THERE IS NO SUCH THING AT ALL and RESERVE REQUIREMENTS of 3% to 5% are only applicable to DEMAND DEPOSITS such as checking accounts but not applicable at all to TIME DEPOSITS such as CDs and savings accounts.

          8. You failed to answer the question where do federal reserve notes originate from?
            Is digital currency the same as paper currency or not? Is digital currency legal tender ? Can you pay your taxes with digital currency?
            Where does the US treasury get currency to pay the interest on those treasuries and where did it get the currency to buy treasuries from the banks in the first place?
            ahh fractional reserve banking means that any deposit can be loaned out up to 9 or more times depending on the reserve requirements which are always lowered over time. Thus if the bank loans out 9-10x its deposits how much does it have left on hand for a demand deposit?

          9. Of course digital forms of US dollars are ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL to printed forms of US dollars. OBVIOUSLY. There is NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER.

            THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING” AS YOU TOTALLY FALSELY AND VERY STUPIDLY ASSERT ABOVE.

            RESERVE REQUIREMENTS DECREASE THE AMOUNT OF MONEY A BANK CAN LEND AGAINST CUSTOMER DEPOSITS BY THE AMOUNT OF THE RESERVE THAT MUST BE MAINTAINED BY THE BANK WHICH IS TYPICALLY 3% TO 5%.

            RESERVE REQUIREMENTS NEVER EVER ENABLE A BANK TO LEND OUT ANY MORE MONEY THAN THE AMOUNT OF THE DEMAND DEPOSITS LESS THE AMOUNT OF THE RESERVE WHICH MUST BE MAINTAINED IN LIQUID CASH BY THE BANK TO ENSURE WITHDRAWAL LIQUIDITY.

            To make that crystal clear for you, here’s the correct math:

            $100,000 Demand deposits from customers in bank
            $-…3,000 Less Reserve Requirement of 3%
            $..97,000 Maximum amount bank can lend to borrowers

            What about that simple and straightforward math is in any way unclear to you?

          10. SILLY BOY FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RESERVE REQUIREMENTS. LET’S MAKE THAT CLEAR…
            WHAT PROBLEM DO YOU HAVE ?

          11. That is an extremely stupid and totally false assertion, dude. NO BANK MAY EVER LEND OUT EVEN UP TO 100% OF ITS DEPOSITS UNLESS ALL OF THOSE DEPOSITS ARE TIME DEPOSITS WITH NO RESERVE REQUIREMENTS. Reserve requirements are the ENTIRE BASIS OF THE ABSURDLY FALSE NOTIONS BY SOME CLUELESS DOLTS AS TO “FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING” WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS AS BOGUS OF A FAKE NOTION AS A $3 BILL.

            Helllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooo?

          12. Silly once again your understanding of what fractional reserve banking is not fractional reserve banking. Next, dude.

          13. Didn’t anyone tell you to stop digging when you’ve dug a hole so deep that you can’t see out the top of that hole, dude?

          14. Here is what fractional reserve banking is yet again.
            citizen a deposits 100 into savings at bank a
            citizen b borrows 95. from bank a (minus reserve requirements 3-5%)
            citizen b buys drugs from citizen c for 95.00
            citizen c puts 95.00 in BANK B for his surfboard savings
            this is repeated 10 times to the tune of 1000.
            THUS DIFFERENT BANKS ARE INVOLVED AND THE ORIGINAL 100 DEPOSIT IS LOANED OUT 10 TIMES CREATING 1000 OUT OF 100. THIS IS FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING.

          15. How do any of those transactions have anything whatsoever to do with “fractional reserve banking” at all doing what you assert? You apparently are totally incapable of comprehending that RESERVE REQUIREMENTS ONLY APPLY TO DEMAND (CHECKING, ETC.) DEPOSITS AND DO NOT APPLY TO TIME (CD, SAVINGS, ETC.) DEPOSITS AT ALL.

            So, with no reserve requirements on time deposits, the bank can lend out amounts EQUAL TO 100% OF TIME DEPOSITS as they do not have to maintain any reserves at all against those deposits.

            MOST DEPOSITS AT BANKS IN TERMS OF AMOUNTS ARE TIME DEPOSITS WITH NO RESERVE REQUIREMENTS and with no reserve requirements THERE WOULD BE AN INFINITE LOOP WHICH WOULD NEVER HAVE AN REDUCTION FOR RESERVES SO BANKS COULD LEND FAR MORE MONEY than on demand deposits with reserve requirements.

            By the way, BORROWING DEMAND IS AT RECORD LOW LEVELS AS A PERCENTAGE OF LOANS BY BANKS TO CUSTOMERS VERSUS DEPOSITS BY CUSTOMERS and the ratio of outstanding loans at banks versus deposits at banks is NOW DOWN TO A RECORD LOW LEVEL OF 67% OF DEPOSIS IN THE US.

          16. sorry but you fail, banking is a closed loop thus is one deposits 100 in bank a it can only be loaned out to a factor of ten. Thus reserve requirements are only for daily transactions of the bank (HELLO..) it does not have access to all bank deposits at any given time. Thus reserve requirements are ONLY FOR DAILY TRANSACTIONS. WHEW
            Therefore that 100 can be loaned out 10 times over because it goes into and out of a maximum of ten separate banks. This is called FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING…Its a closed loop…

          17. You are obviously hopelessly failing to comprehend banking and the flow of money in an economy.

            What you are essentially describing and confusing with the nutty false notion of “fractional reserve lending” is the MONEY MULTIPLIER EFFECT, especially as to all loans, as money moves through the economy. That has nothing to do with “fractional reserve lending” and HAPPENS AFTER THE LOAN IS MADE BY A BANK AS THE PROCEEDS OF THE LOAN ARE USED for goods and services in the economy and those funds are deposited back in to the banking system creating NEW DEPOSITS AGAINST WHICH NEW LOANS CAN BE MADE but that has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE ORIGINAL LOANS BY A BANK TO A BORROWER such as you erroneously imagine.

            NO BANK CREATES ANY MONEY AT ALL, LET ALONE “OUT OF THIN AIR” – EVER. AND NO BANK CAN EVER LOAN OUT MORE THAN 100% OF THE DEPOSITS IT HAS IN ITS CUSTOMER ACCOUNTS.

            NEARLY ALL LOANS DO NOT GET DEPOSITED DIRECTLY BACK INTO THE BANKING SYSTEM but instead are used to purchase goods and services. Money is NOT STATIC AND IT DOES NOT JUST KEEP TRANSFERRING IN THE FORM OF MONEY without being split up many ways by the people to whom it transfers.

            Without RESERVE REQUIREMENTS banks could LOAN UP TO 100% OF DEPOSITS but never any more and that is indeed the case with TIME DEPOSITS (savings, CDs, etc.) versus DEMAND DEPOSITS which are the only deposits as to which reserve requirements apply. WITHOUT RESERVE REQUIREMENTS BANKS CAN LEND MORE NOT LESS OF DEPOSITS.

            There is presently a VERY LOW UTILIZATION RATE OF DEPOSITS AT BANKS and total loans outstanding from banks are only 67% OF THE AMOUNT OF DEPOSITS IN BANKS.

          18. hehe epic failure private banks are loaned currency by the depositor who then loan that currency to a borrower. Without savings fractional reserve banking cannot function since private banks do not create currency other than credit currency.

            DEFINITION of ‘Fractional Reserve Banking’

            A banking system in which only a fraction of bank deposits are backed by actual cash-on-hand and are available for withdrawal. This is done to expand the economy by freeing up capital that can be loaned out to other parties. Most countries operate under this type of system.

            Also known as “fractional deposit lending”.
            hehe ROLF…..

          19. Your failure to comprehend banking is beyond astounding.

            Deposits DO NOT LOAN ANY MONEY TO BANKS AT ALL. Deposits place funds in banks which are assets to the depositors and liabilities to the bank.

            BANKS DO NOT “CREATE ANY MONEY” at all.

            As to savings, they are TIME DEPOSITS, which are NOT SUBJECT TO RESERVE REQUIREMENTS AT ALL, unlike DEMAND DEPOSITS such as check which are subject to RESERVE REQUIREMENTS of 3% to 5% of the amount of the deposits.

            As to your absurd notions regarding “fractional reserve banking” you obviously continue to have ZERO COMPREHENSION as to RESERVE REQUIREMENTS upon which such utterly bogus assertions are based by some clueless dolts.

            Once again, TIME DEPOSITS such as savings and CDs are NO SUBJECT O RESERVE REQUIREMENTS AT ALL AND BANKS CAN LOAN OUT UP TO BUT NEVER MORE THAN 100% OF THOSE DEPOSITS< while with DEMAND DEPOSITS such as check banks can only lend out the amount of the deposits up to the reserve requirements of 3% to 5%. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN ANY BANK AT ANY TIME EVER LEND OUT MORE THAN 100% OF THE TOTAL AGGREGATE AMOUNT OF DEPOSITS IT HAS FROM CUSTOMERS.

          20. DEFINITION of ‘Fractional Reserve Banking’

            A banking system in which only a fraction of bank deposits are backed by actual cash-on-hand and are available for withdrawal. This is done to expand the economy by freeing up capital that can be loaned out to other parties. Most countries operate under this type of system.

            Also known as “fractional deposit lending”.

          21. Once again, you obviously don’t even begin to comprehend that RESERVE REQUIREMENTS RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT A BANK CAN LEND AGAINST DEPOSITS, which is of course its very purpose tn order to remain a RESERVE AMOUNT OF CASH ON HAND TO MEET ANTICIPATED DEMAND DEPOSIT WITHDRAWALS.

            As to bank lending, obviously banks lend against deposits as that is how banking systems operate. Without reserve requirements such as is the case with time deposits BANK CAN LEND OUT UP TO 100% OF THOSE TIME DEPOSITS as opposed to up to around 97% with demand deposits on which reserve requirements apply.

    3. 1) Historical mean, means nothing in light of unlimited currency creation engaged in by all major countries central banks. Thus attempting to calculate a mean is impossible without total world money calculations.
      2) Since there is no accurate count of the total money world supply there can be no accounting for the price of gold. Forget the fact that comex etf gold controls the price of the physical market and is estimated to be at least 100-1 if not 120-1 or more. If one just took the price of etf leveraged at 100-1 gold should be 100 x the currently trading price on the comex.
      3) Everything more is pure conjecture and nothing more.

      1. Where do you come up with your utter nonsense regarding “unlimited currency creation” when THERE IS NO SUCH THING AT ALL?

        Gold has nothing whatsoever in any event to do with money supply and is just one of 27 major commodities nearly all of which have been plummeting in price over the past 4 years with many if not most of them down 35% or more over the past 4 years.

        As to COMEX, less than 10% of all gold transacted each year is transacted through COMEX.

        Your preposterous assertions regarding COMEX are utterly bogus and categorically and patently false.

        There is obviously ONLY EVER ONE DEED TO A HOUSE and the very same is true of each COMEX commodities contract. When a contract is sold to another party, the right of delivery of the good specified by the contract fully passes to the other party.

        If the COMEX contract transacts 100 times or 1000 time or 1,000,000 times during its duration that doesn’t increase the number contracts relative to the commodity specified in the contract as ONLY THE SINGLE PARTY HOLDING THE CONTRACT UPON MATURITY HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE DELIVERY OF THE GOODS SPECIFIED IN THAT CONTRACT as all other parties have relinquished those rights along the way by transferring the contract to successor parties.

        What is so difficult for you to comprehend about that simple process?

        1. wow what is qe? ANS CURRENCY CREATION.
          Gold has everything to do with currency supply! Etf gold is bought and sold by large investors including central banks which CREATE UNLIMITED CURRENCY !
          Once again who cares about deeds when the physical available for delivery is less than the total number of claims on physical gold that DOES NOT EVEN EXIST!
          Deeds are worthless if the underlying commodity does not exist PERIOD.

          1. once again you are wrong. Not only is it legal tender in various countries and states there is a direct connection to gold and legal tender fiat which is why central banks hoard gold.

          2. Once again, I am, of course, 100% CORRECT. Gold has NO APPLICABILITY WHATSOEVER TO ANY CURRENCY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD TODAY. None, nada, zip, nil, and zilch. Gold bullion is NOT LEGAL TENDER (OBVIOUSLY) IN ANY COUNTRY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. The only country that even comes close to that is South Africa which allows their government minted Krugerrands to transact without a stated nominal face value for a floating exchange rate, but that is not applicable to any other gold bullion in South Africa.

            Central banks most certainly do not “hoard” gold at all and have REDUCED THEIR GOLD HOLDINGS BY ABOUT 10% over the past 10 years from around 35,000 metric tonnes to their present holdings of just over 32,000 metric tonnes.

          3. If gold had nothing to do with currency then why do banks hold gold and please don’t say tradition..lame. Gold is legal tender in various countries (iran) and even some states (Utah).
            Did central banks create more fiat currency making their holdings in gold appear to shrink or did they sell it all off ? Are central banks buying or selling gold over the last several years ?

          4. TRADITION, but central banks have been reducing their gold holdings by about 10% over the past 10 years from 35,000 metric tonnes to their present slightly over 32,000 metric tonnes.

          5. TRADITION IS NOT AN ANSWER. Including the fact that banks are buying for the past several years. Though compared to fiat currency holdings that are being printed out of control their gold reserves are falling in percentage.

          6. TRADITION and the difficulty of dumping 32,000 metric tonnes of gold are the only reason why banks still have any gold left at all as it is a totally useless and RAPIDLY PLUNGING COMMODITY that is a very TOXIC ASSET on the books of central banks that have the stuff, but it is VERY HARD TO GET RID OF as there is very little demand for the stuff which is overhang at 4,650 metric tonnes a year.

            Are you not aware that the entire global gold markets have annual sales of less than $234 billion for the total of around 4,650 metric tonnes of gold that are supplied each year and that the $234 billion is less than half the annual amount of Wal-Mart’s sales?

          7. lol I guess that’s why central banks are buying up gold.. Once again playing with numbers. In case you haven’t noticed gold can rise in price and the dollar can be devalued in price by qe etc Not to mention record sales around the world. Perhaps if banks sold more then the high price would come down creating a larger market so they could sell even more. The higher price the less the average world citizen (8-10,000) will buy . Its a matter of affordability.

          8. Central banks have been reducing their gold holdings by about 10% over the past 10 years from 35,000 metric tonnes to their present slightly over 32,000 metric tonnes.

          9. wow that’s not what the world gold counsel reports 2012 30877 vs 2013 31491 that’s an increase not decrease..

            http://www.northamericaninterests.ca/international-gold-reserves-countries-central-bank.php#gold_reserves_by_country

            Since first becoming a net purchaser in Q2 2009, central banks have added almost 1,100.0 tonnes to global gold reserves, almost reserving the 1,143.0 tonnes of net sales conducted over the preceding three years. Global gold reserves, as measured by the IMF’s International Financial Statistics, have steadily increased since Q1 2009: as of November 2012, total world gold reserves were 31,597.6 tonnes, an increase of 6% from the end of March 2009.

            http://goldsilverworlds.com/gold-silver-general/global-gold-reserves-in-2012-by-central-banks/

          10. There is no contradiction whatsoever between what I stated and those numbers and statements from the World Gold Council. There has been a very slight increase in gold holdings of central bans from 2009 until current, but the fact of the matter is that Central banks have been reducing their gold holdings by about 10%
            over the past 10 years from 35,000 metric tonnes to their present
            slightly over 32,000 metric tonnes which is, of course, fully confirmed by the World Gold Council at :

            http://www.Gold.org

  30. Anyone who buys this preposterously overpriced little niche yellow metallic fungible commodity is in for MASSIVE LOSSES dead ahead as it reverts towards and to its mean of $456 per ounce and then heads lower towards the current US government current official price of $42.22 per ounce.

    1. The grossly overpriced and totally worthless about to crash Dollar is nothing compared to gold which is in terms of dollars selling in TERMS OF real gold not Comex Paper garbage already 2000 dollars an ounce, we have a 10 trillion dollar deficit and 18(really at least double) debt and Enron accounting going on all over the place the PPT now owning 50% of the collapsed non existant stock market ain;t gonna save this nor the Fed’s stealth QE or QE-to infinty

      1. Hardly. The US dollar has risen 80% in purchasing value against gold over the past 4 years and is skyrocketing in exchange value with the DXY rising to a 10 year high of 94.30 tonight.

        Your assertions regarding COMEX are totally and categorically false, not to mention mindbogglingly clueless and absurd.

        You obviously need to learn about how COMEX functions.

        All commodities contracts on COMEX are backed by the exact amount of metal specified in those contracts and NO CONTRACTS ARE EVER ISSUED BY COMES THAT ARE NOT FULLY BACKED BY THE EXACT AMOUNT OF METAL SPECIFIED IN THE CONTRACT AND ON DEPOSIT AT THE COMEX VAULTS. Never. Ever.

        Gold Futures Contract Specs – CME Group

        http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/gold_contract_specifications.html

    2. If central banks create unlimited currency(qe) do commodity prices increase or decrease as a result? Does the purchasing power of the usd go up or go down? Will gold increase in price or decrease in price?
      If the gobernet says the price of gold is 44.22 and the markets say otherwise who is correct ?

      1. Central banks most certainly do not “create unlimited currency” at all. As to QE as done by the Federal Reserve NOT A PENNY OF THOSE FUNDS EVER LEFT THE FEDERAL RESERVE and only increased the MONETARY BASE with no affect whatsoever on the money supply. Obviously, if all of the QE funds stay within the banking system as was the case with both the US and UK versions of QE, that has NO AFFECT WHATSOEVER AS TO THE MARKETS, ECONOMY, AND PURCHASING POWER OF THE CURRENCIES involved with that QE. And, obviously, that QE has nothing whatsoever to do with the price of some silly little niche collecitble fungible yellow commodity.

        1. wrong central banks create unlimited amounts of currency. Just a quick look at base money supply over 100 years blows up that façade.
          Qe funds went to buy bonds who are the holders of bonds? Is digital money money?
          If the federal reserve bought bonds then where does that currency go?

          1. Those are totally false and absurdly clueless assertions, dude, and it is apparently that you don’t even begin to comprehend what the Federal Reserve versins of QE were and what they weren’t?

            The Federal Reserve SIMPLY PLACED THE PROCEEDS FROM SECURITIES PURCHASES FROM THE BANKS INTO THEIR EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THOSE BANKS INSIDE THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND INSTRUCTED THOSE BANS TO KEEP THOSE QE FUNDS IN THOSE ACCOUNTS.

            QE which was simply an asset shifting program to move securities from the books of the banks onto the books of the Federal Reserve.

            The Federal Reserve version of QE worked quite perfectly as designed. It had nothing whatsoever to do with any “stimulus” for the economy in terms of actual money flow and was merely an ASSET SHIFTING PROGRAM in order to create a large liquidity pool for the banks.

            PURPOSES OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE VERSION OF QE

            There were 3 reasons for the Federal Reserve version of QE.

            First, it was essentially a CHARADE to make it look like the Federal Reserve was doing all it could to “stimulate” the economy and provide a “wealth effect” to try to life economic activity and asset prices.

            Second, and much more important in reality, the primary purpose of QE was TO CREATE A LARGE LIQUIDITY POOL OF EXCESS RESERVES OWNED BY THE BANKS AT THE FEDERAL RESERVE so that the banks would not have to sell off assets such as securities at fire sale prices in the next financial crises, panics, and shocks but rather could turn to that liquidity pool at the Federal Reserve to clear transactions, particularly from bad derivatives plays.

            Third, QE lowered the government interest on its massive $18 trillion debt because the Federal Reserve increased its holdings of US Treasuries to over $2.2 trillion making the interest on those ESSENTIALLY FREE to the US government because the Federal Reserve operates as a NOT-FOR-PROFIT entity and rebates 100% of its annual profits each year to the US Treasury after paying a modest 6% annual dividend to its member bank shareholders.

            That mission has now been fully accomplished with a LIQUIDITY POOL OF $3.0+ TRILLION in the excess reserves of the banks at the Federal Reserve which will act as a cushion in the next series of crises.

          2. Really what is qe ? Is that not creating currency out of nothing (what the federal reserve does) backed by nothing to buy bonds that the government(aka taxpayer) pays interest on? How many trillions of bonds were bought and how many trillions in base money was printed and how much digital credit was created (thanks ) to zirp and qe since 2008 ?
            Any clue ? ANSWER TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS. If trillions and trillions were created and pumped into the economy how is it possible that it had no effect? Is that why stock market is rising or is the stock market rising because the economy is booming and factories are churning out goods, houses are being bought, prices are going down (due to increased purchasing power) and everyone is spending money? rolf the markets rise because of the newly created currency nothing more which devalues the dollar and prices rise.

          3. The Federal Reserve version of QE was JUST A SERIES OF ACCOUNTING ENTRIES TO MOVE EXISTING US TREASURIES FROM THE BOOKS OF THE BANKS FROM WHICH IT PURCHASED THOSE SECURITIES TO THE BOOKS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE IN EXCHANGE FOR THE PROCEEDS OF NEWLY CREATED MONEY BEING DEPOSITED EXCLUSIVELY IN THE EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THOSE BANKS AT THE FEDERAL RESERVE. That only increased the MONETARY BASE and had no affect whatsoever on the MONEY SUPPLY.

            QE had nothing whatsoever to do with any markets and 100% of the QE funds always STAYED INSIDE THE FEDERAL RESERVE. There was NO MONEY PUT INTO CIRCULATION WHATSOEVER WITH QE and not a single penny of QE funds were used to speculate on anything as they always REMAINED INSIDE THE EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THE BANKS THERE FROM WHOM THE FEDERAL RESERVE PURCHASED SECURITIES.

            The Federal Reserve DID NOT GIVE A SINGLE PENNY TO BANKS WITH QE, but rather purchased existing securities owned by those banks which meant that those banks who sold those securities to the Federal Reserve HAD NO NET GAINS WHATSOEVER with those QE transactions.

            FEDERAL RESERVE VERSION OF QE EXPLAINED:

            1) Federal Reserve buys securities from banks

            2) Federal Reserve deposits cash proceeds in excess reserves accounts of those banks at the Federal Reserve

            3) Securities stay parked on assets side of Federal Reserve GL

            4) Proceeds funds stay parked on liabilities side of Federal Reserve GL in the excess reserves accounts of the banks at the Federal Reserve

            The process is an ENTIRELY CLOSED LOOP just as if it were done inside a VACUUM.

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h8/current/

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

            How many times does this have to be stated before it actually sinks in, folks?

            The QE funds are sitting parked in the excess reserves accounts of the banks and none of them ever got into the economy at all as is clearly established by the evidence on that matter. The total amounts in those excess reserves accounts now exceeds $2.5 trillion.

            EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF BANKS TOP $2.5 TRILLION – WSJ

            So what exactly are excess reserves, and why should you care? Like most central banks, the Fed requires banks to hold reserves—mainly deposits in their “checking accounts” at the Fed—against transactions deposits. Any reserves held over and above these requirements are called excess reserves.

            Not long ago—say, until Lehman Brothers failed in September 2008—banks held virtually no excess reserves because idle cash earned them nothing. But today they hold a whopping $2.5 trillion in excess reserves, on which the Fed pays them an interest rate of 25 basis points—for an annual total of about $6.25 billion. That 25 basis points, what the Fed calls the IOER (interest on excess reserves), is the issue.

            http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579238403178592262

          4. Wow once again is qe creation a form of currency or not? Is “DIGITAL TRANSFERAL” FROM THE TREASURY TO CENTRAL BANKS BY BUYING SECURITIES A FORM OF CURRENCY OR NOT ?
            It should be easy to understand. If I bank online and transfer currency in the form of digits to pay my bills it comes from central banking or fractional reserve banking. These digits are a FORM OF CURRENCY and are as real as the ones on my CREDIT CARD and are just as real as FIAT pieces of colored PAPER in my pocket. All forms of currency contribute to total currency supply.
            Now is qe currency creation or not, and does qe directly affect the stock markets as banks use that “digital currency” to buy back their own stocks, other stocks, housing and so forth ?

          5. There is NO SUCH THING AS “fractional reserve banking” at all. Electronic transfers are not some kind of separate currency but MERELY TRANSFER OF US DOLLARS WITHIN THE US BANKING AND FINANCIAL SYSTEM – OBVIOUSLY. There is no “form of currency” BUT US DOLLARS which are being transferred. Helllllooooooo?

            QE had nothing whatsoever to do with any markets and 100% of the QE funds always STAYED INSIDE THE FEDERAL RESERVE. There was NO MONEY PUT INTO CIRCULATION WHATSOEVER WITH QE and not a single penny of QE funds were used to speculate on anything as they always REMAINED INSIDE THE EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THE BANKS THERE FROM WHOM THE FEDERAL RESERVE PURCHASED SECURITIES.

            The Federal Reserve DID NOT GIVE A SINGLE PENNY TO BANKS WITH QE, but rather purchased existing securities owned by those banks which meant that those banks who sold those securities to the Federal Reserve HAD NO NET GAINS WHATSOEVER with those QE transactions.

            FEDERAL RESERVE VERSION OF QE EXPLAINED:

            1) Federal Reserve buys securities from banks

            2) Federal Reserve deposits cash proceeds in excess reserves accounts of those banks at the Federal Reserve

            3) Securities stay parked on assets side of Federal Reserve GL

            4) Proceeds funds stay parked on liabilities side of Federal Reserve GL in the excess reserves accounts of the banks at the Federal Reserve

            The process is an ENTIRELY CLOSED LOOP just as if it were done inside a VACUUM.

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h8/current/

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

            How many times does this have to be stated before it actually sinks in, folks?

            The QE funds are sitting parked in the excess reserves accounts of the banks and none of them ever got into the economy at all as is clearly established by the evidence on that matter. The total amounts in those excess reserves accounts now exceeds $2.5 trillion.

            EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF BANKS TOP $2.5 TRILLION – WSJ

            So what exactly are excess reserves, and why should you care? Like most central banks, the Fed requires banks to hold reserves—mainly deposits in their “checking accounts” at the Fed—against transactions deposits. Any reserves held over and above these requirements are called excess reserves.

            Not long ago—say, until Lehman Brothers failed in September 2008—banks held virtually no excess reserves because idle cash earned them nothing. But today they hold a whopping $2.5 trillion in excess reserves, on which the Fed pays them an interest rate of 25 basis points—for an annual total of about $6.25 billion. That 25 basis points, what the Fed calls the IOER (interest on excess reserves), is the issue.

            http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579238403178592262

          6. If fractional reserve banking does not exist then what does the bank do with deposits ? Just leave them in their bank?
            Electronic digits are considered currency as they are freely used to pay taxes which make them “LEGAL TENDER” digits. Hence they are part of the total money supply ! Hello, hello is anyone in there ?
            I think I hear an echo…
            Not only that, can you pay for goods and services with them ? How about exchanging them for say GOLD, fiat paper? How about for paying bills like your credit card hmm hydro, gas ?
            “THE FEDERAL private foreign RESERVE BUYS SECURITIES FROM THE BANKS” SBD

          7. RESERVE REQUIREMENTS mean just what their name implies, NAMELY THAT BANKS CANNOT LEND OUT THE FULL AMOUNT OF CUSTOMER DEMAND DEPOSITS BUT CAN ONLY LEND THEM OUT UP TO THE RESERVE (3% to 5% typically) THAT THEY MUST MAINTAIN ON HAND AT THE BANK IN LIQUID CASH FUNDS TO MEET ANTICIPATED WITHDRAWALS.

            Reserve requirements are NOT APPLICABLE TO TIME DEPOSITS such as savings accounts or CDs (Certificates of Deposit) and BANKS CAN LEND OUT UP TO 100% OF CUSTOMER TIME DEPOSITS.

            BANKS CAN NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LEND OUT MORE THAN 100% OF THEIR CUSTOMER DEPOSITS EVEN IF THEY ARE ALL TIME DEPOSITS.

            Where you come up with the STUPID, FALSE, AND UTTERLY INANE NOTION THAT BANKS LEND OUT SOME MULTIPLE OF THEIR CUSTOMER DEPOSITS IS BEYOND ANY REASONABLE COMPREHENSION as that is obviously NOT THE CASE AND HAVE NEVER EVER BEEN THE CASE WITH BANK LENDING OF CUSTOMER DEPOSITS.

            By the way, the demand for borrowing is so low these days that the aggregate utilization rate by banks of customer deposits for lending to borrowers is 67% in the US which means banks are maintaining reserves of 33% of customer deposits and ONLY LENDING OUT 67% OF THE AMOUNT OF CUSTOMER DEPOSITS IN US BANKS THESE DAYS.

          8. silly we are not talking about reserve requirements that are in the bank on deposit for daily functions. We are talking about the 95-97% loaned out.
            Though an initial deposit of 100, 90 is loaned out to the next bank, and so forth and so on for a total 9 times.
            THIS IS FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING…SILLY BOY…

          9. THERE IS NO SUCH THING WHATSOEVER AS FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING AS YOU TOTALLY FALSELY ASSERT. It is apparently that you have ZERO COMPREHENSION REGARDING BANKING AND RESERVE REQUIREMENTS. Either you are EXTREMELY STUPID OR JUST PUTTING UP TOTALLY FALSE AND ASININE PROPAGANDA INTENTIONALLY and in either case you are making an utter fool out of yourself.

            You apparently don’t even begin to comprehend that banks can lend out 100% of depositor funds with NO RESERVE REQUIREMENTS WHATSOEVER ON TIME DEPOSITS VERSUS THE RESERVE REQUIREMENTS ON DEMAND DEPOSITS, which obviously blows your entire notion of “fractional reserve banking” to total shreds.

          10. Once again you don’t even know what fractional reserve banking is as you explained that you have no clue. ahahaha hehe

          11. Your idiotic, asinine, and totally bogus assertion are blown to shreds by the simple fact THAT NOT A SINGLE BANK IN THE WORLD HAS LOANS OUTSTANDING EVEN EQUAL TO THEIR CUSTOMER DEPOSITS as is clearly evident by looking at any balance sheet of any bank in the US or anywhere in the world.

            Why keep putting up totally absurd and utterly bogus assertions.

            THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS “FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING” as you completely falsely and fraudulently assert.

          12. hey if you fail to understand fractional reserve banking how do you know it doesn’t exist ?
            LET ME EXPLAIN TO YOUR FRIED BRAIN DUDE. FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING IS THIS; bank A receives a deposit from citizen A 100.00 who keeps the reserve requirement of 3-5% on hand to run the bank . Now citizen B goes to bank A and gets a 90.00 loan from bank A. Citizen B now buys drugs from citizen C who then deposits that 90.00 in bank B. Now citizen B pays his rent to citizen c which was 80.00 (reserves held back) who then deposits it in bank c. Now this continues on 9 TIMES THE ORIGINAL DEPOSIT ! Therefore that original deposit of 100. is loaned out 9 times creating 1000 out of 100.00 THIS IS FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING IT HAS VIRTUALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH RESERVE REQUIREMENTS.

          13. That has to be one of the MOST LAUGHABLY PREPOSTEROUS descriptions of “fractional reserve banking” I’ve ever read!!!!!!!

          14. I guess the Bundesbank central bank is wrong and you are right ahaha now that’s the joke de jour…!! You should do stand up comedy hehe haha ROLF

          15. funny dude no proof though you think banks don’t loan out the original deposit and it is then deposited in another bank and so on to a factor of 10. Perhaps you will try to convince me that banks don’t loan out deposits lol

          16. people put money in a bank then the bank loans out the currency. Every 100 on deposit it can create 1000 by 10 successive bank deposits and bank loans into different banks. 100- 1000 is a factor of 10.

          17. That is a categorically and patently false assertion. Each deposit can only create up to the fully amount of that deposit for a bank to loan out to anyone if it is a time deposit, and can only create up to about 97% of that deposit if it is a demand deposit with a 3% reserve requirement applicable to it.

          18. DEFINITION of ‘Fractional Reserve Banking’

            A banking system in which only a fraction of bank deposits are backed by actual cash-on-hand and are available for withdrawal. This is done to expand the economy by freeing up capital that can be loaned out to other parties. Most countries operate under this type of system.

            Also known as “fractional deposit lending”.

          19. False. You obviously don’t even begin to comprehend that RESERVE REQUIREMENTS RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT A BANK CAN LEND AGAINST DEPOSITS, which is of course its very purpose tn order to remain a RESERVE AMOUNT OF CASH ON HAND TO MEET ANTICIPATED DEMAND DEPOSIT WITHDRAWALS.

            As to bank lending, obviously banks lend against deposits as that is how banking systems operate. Without reserve requirements such as is the case with time deposits BANK CAN LEND OUT UP TO 100% OF THOSE TIME DEPOSITS as opposed to up to around 97% with demand deposits on which reserve requirements apply.

  31. I can’t believe the paid banker troll didn’t spew propaganda on here already.
    Bankers are like leaches, just parasites on society.

    1. Bankers are FINANCIAL PROFESSIONALS without which economies would not even function, and I would suggest you start showing proper respect for these fine and outstanding financial professionals, dude.

      1. Stop voting for yourself paper worshiper your empire of lies and 80% unemployment, 1/3 wage drops have less tax money doubling Debts on all states dman near and Fed gov going pfficially up to 18 trillion LOLOL you fool its 2008 all over again this time NO WAY OUT

          1. That is indeed what I suggest YOU do, dude or dudette, if you can’t come up with anything evenly remotely correct or intelligent to say.

          2. socalbeachdude …. why not tell these fine folks the truth about the real mission statement on floating fiat currencies and how they act as measuring tools for gold weight in real-time, so that gold can now be remonetized by the market ….. debt-free ?

          3. You can check mark your own comment all you want while I nail your nuts to the chair. What’s false ? Do you actually have an intelligent argument that makes sense ???

            Need I remind you of your argument that suggests that the banker said “there isn’t enough gold”. What he meant by that is “there isn’t enough liquidity in gold if the price is FIXED” Nice argument for those who are still living in the 1960’s.

            Gold’s liquidity (economic reach) is the product of (gold weight x trade value/unit weight) —> (Gold weight x USD/oz) You can raise or lower liquidity by way of either element, the weight or the trade value.

            Did you know that the Keynesian reference to “useless relic” was about the gold standard of the early 20th century ? It was not about gold, in of itself. Gold needed the real-time valuation component, which got kicked off in 1944 with the advent of the Bretton Woods Agreement. Study it.

            It’s the floating dollar development that has allowed the floating USD/oz measuring tool to be used in a real-time gold-as-currency paradigm. The math doesn’t lie.

            Over to you, big mouth.

          4. Nonsense. The simple fact of the matter is that economies and currencies far outgrew gold as the world’s population has increased to its present approximate 7 billion people.

          5. Obviously, I am one of the few who actually states the actual facts regarding gold and the financial system here, dude.

          6. Ah, your assertions are “facts”, and everyone else’s assertions are “absurd nonsense”. You ARE a comedian.

          7. Go back school Gold’s liquidity is the product of (weight x trade value) ===> Weight x USD/oz.

            If you cannot do simple math to calculate liquidity, what are you doing in this conversation, trying to make it up to some sort of grand master ? LOL

            There are NO theoretical limits on the price of an asset now that we have a tool to compare the price value of two assets in real-time. That’s not my opinion. That’s a mathematical and real-world fact.

            Don’t you just hate it when the facts confuse you ? LMAO

          8. Huh? Your “liquidity” nonsense is so out to lunch as to be utterly laughable. Obviously the price of gold is determined by the current market value of gold per Troy ounce, but SO WHAT? That has always been the case. There most certainly are theoretical limits on the price of any asset and those limits are OBVIOUSLY BASED ON FUNDAMENTAL VALUATION METRICS including supply and demand.

          9. NewsFlash …. My “liquidity non-sense” as you refer to it, is obviously something you haven’t considered in view of the historical facts that anyone reading this thread will know.

            You said : Obviously the price of gold is determined by the current market value
            of gold per Troy ounce, but SO WHAT? That has always been the case.

            That has not always been the case. The market only started to set the price of gold after the Bretton Woods agreement was dissolved along with the price peg of $35.00/oz.

            Gold only took on the scalable liquidity, even in theory, in 1971. Now , thanks to the real-time valuations and modern network technology, you trade gold weight for a stick of gum or a house. Gold is LAWFUL money.

            Your credit of knowing what you’re talking about just went into the crapper. You’ll excuse the toilet rolls being thrown your way ? LOL

          10. I am rolling on the floor laughing at yur absurd assertions. What you are describing are ASSET BUBBLE and you are substituting your laughable words of “scalable liquidity” for the correct phrase ASSET BUBBLE.

            Are you not aware that throughout the history of the “free markets” there have been MASSIVE BUBBLES which started with the Dutch Tulip Bulb bubble of 1637.

            In bubbles (such as we now have with gold and silver and many other commodities), the markets BID UP THE PRICES INTO ABSURD AND PREPOSTEROUS BUBBLES and then those bubbles started to collapse in April 2011 (AS BUBBLES ALWAYS DO0 when the SUPPLY OF GREATER FOOLS RAN OUT.

            As to the price of gold specifically, it has plunged about 32% from its MANIC BUBBLE HIGH in April 2011 and is now well on its way towards and to its mean of $456 per ounce and then lower, perhaps as low as its current US government official price of $42.22 per ounce.

            I’d suggest you watch this video on the original SCALABLE LIQUIDITY back in 1637 with TULIP BULBS:

            Dutch tulip mania documentary

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkXzYL8EWic

          11. Tulips can be grown in astronomical numbers. The harvesting and cost of mining gold is not so easy. You should try it some time. Not an east job. The costs, time, energy and risk act as natural supply disciple by the market. This a little different than a replenishable resource like tulips ! Good grief, I can’t believe you made the comparison. Next time , try rabbits … LOL. Just as funny.

            How does this nail feel going through your nuts ? I think you like it.

          12. ASSET BUBBLES ALWAYS BURST and the preposterous GOLD BUBBLE HAS BEEN BURSTING FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS SINE APRIL 2011 during which time the price of gold has plunged around 33%.

          13. You should not get to excited about it, It really does not matter. It is what it is and it will be what it will be. No need to get a boner there dude. It will also happen without your drama. However they did shut down 7 vaults at HSBC in London this Friday.

          14. That’s hypocritical, considering that you haven’t said anything “evenly remotely correct or intelligent”.

        1. No, they most certainly did not. There have been bankers all the way back to the beginning of Western civilization. Helllloooo?

          1. What do they have to do with anything? The original organized banking world began as money changers in temples in Palestine more than 2,000 years ago. Hellloooooooo?

          2. Ah, yes. The money changers Jesus chased out of the Jewish temple. I believe he called them thieves. Nothing has changed.

          3. Obviously Jesus of Nazareth about 2,000 years ago was extremely disrespectful of the fine professional bankers of the day and his lack of respect was one of the direct and proximate causes of his early demise for his disrespectful and heinous actions which were against the law of the day.

          4. That would be the same Jesus who was gifted GOLD on his birthday and later sold out for forty pieces of SILVER.

            No mention of any dollars or other FIAT currencies in the bible.

            This was also about the time of the start of the collapse of the Roman Empire which was helped along when they debased their currency.

            Learn the lessons from history.

          5. Those were very crude and primitive economic times back then, dude. Today we have a wonderful modern electronic world of money which is the most advanced financial system ever achieved.

          6. hehl that robs from the poor/ middle class via “legal tender laws” to enrich the 85 people own 50%+ of the earth. Advanced? lol

          7. You never answered the basic question if the federal reserve lends gobernets currency at interest how is the interest paid back ?
            Especially if the first federal reserve note WAS BORROWED INTO EXISTANCE AND IS THE ONLY FORM OF LEGAL TENDER CURRENCY!
            I await your answer wise one….

          8. You are so confused with your mindless blather that it is utterly mindboggling. Are you taking mind-altering drugs or just trying to be stupid and obnoxious?

          9. How can you not to realise that the federal reserve loans currency to the gobernet at interest and that currency is required to be paid back. Where does that currency come from to pay back central banksters if the first dollar loaned to the gobernet is created into existence based on debt?

          10. Are you not aware that the Federal Reserve essentially operates as a NOT FOR PROFIT entity and rebates 94% of its earnings every year to the US Treasury, which this year amounted to nearly $100 billion? The Federal Reserve is the single largest source of revenue for the US government.

          11. The FEDERAL RESERVE IS A PRIVATE OF PROFIT BANK THAT PAYS ITS SHAREHOLDERS 6% …including other banks profit who are owned by the same shareholders from its policies.

          12. The Federal Reserve is a quasi-private/public banks that has special status because of its creation by and governance by the FEDERAL RESERVE ACT. It turns over 94% of its annual profits to the US Treasury and pays only a modest 6% annual dividend to its member bank shareholders.

            The Federal Reserve does not cost US taxpayers a single penny. In fact, the Federal Reserve acts essentially as a NOT-FOR-PROFIT entity and REBATES NEARLY $100 BILLION A YEAR TO THE US TREASURY and is the single biggest source of revenues for the US government each year.

            Federal Reserve Press Release 01/09/2015

            “The Federal Reserve Board on Friday announced preliminary unaudited results indicating that the Reserve Banks provided for payments of approximately $98.7 billion of their estimated 2014 net income to the U.S. Treasury. Under the Board’s policy, the residual earnings of each Federal Reserve Bank are distributed to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for the costs of operations, payment of dividends, and the amount necessary to equate surplus with capital paid-in.”

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/other/20150109a.htm

            I would suggest you learn about the Federal Reserve at:

            http://www.FederalReserve.gov

          13. Please read your own quote “after providing for the costs of operations, payment of dividend SBD(sun baked dude)… ahem the federal reserve pays dividends what branch of the gobernet pays dividends? Any guess ?

          14. Huh? As I clearly stated, the Federal Reserve is a QUASI-PUBLIC/PRIVATE BANK THAT ESSENTIALLY OPERATES AS A NOT-FOR-PROFIT ENTITY. Nobody is stating it does not have certain private characteristics including OWNERSHIP BY ITS MEMBER BANK SHAREHOLDERS WHO RECEIVE 6% ANNUAL DIVIDENDS FROM THE PROFITS of the Federal Reserve.

          15. So does it cost anything to have the PRIVATE FOREIGN FEDERAL RESERVE “OWNERSHIP BY ITS MEMBER BANK SHAREHOLDERS WHO RECEIVE 6% ANNUAL DIVIDENDS FROM THE PROFITS ” SUN BAKED DUDE ?

          16. The Federal Reserve is AN EXCLUSIVELY UNITED STATES QUASI-PUBLIC / PRIVATE BANK and the only foreign involvement is with UNITED STATES OPERATING SUBSIDIARIES OF CERTAIN FOREIGN BANKS which are separate and distinct from their parent foreign bank holding companies.

          17. So what? What difference does it make who owns the Federal Reserve? As to your other assertion, I would suggest that you read the actual FEDERAL RESERVE ACT to get a proper understanding regarding the Federal Reserve and the controls that Congress exerts over the Federal Reserve. The full Federal Reserve Act is at:

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/fract.htm

          18. Too funny, if someone owns the federal reserve and loans the gobernet currency it comes as a cost. Banksters do not own banks in order to give away free money they make money off of interest from loaning out that currency. They are not a religious institution..lol
            Congress allowed the federal reserve to have a monopoly over what currency is “legal tender” and the President appoints one person to the board nothing more. Which is why its a “quasi” gobernet/private business. Without enforcement by the gobernet via “legal tender laws” they would not have a monopoly.

          19. There is no “fine print” in any of my comments or quotes and MOST ALL OF MY COMMENTS ARE IN BOLD so there is no mistaking or missing any and all of the print in them.

          20. Obviously, based on your above assertions, you don’t even begin to comprehend the concept of dividends which are paid to owners / shareholders of a business concern FROM THE PROFITS OF THAT entity.

            In the case of the Federal Reserve, those dividends are PAID BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE FROM ITS PROFITS each year and then the full remaining balance of the Federal Reserve profits are REBATED TO THE US TREASURY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE US GOVERNMENT so there is NOT ONLY NO COST WHATSOEVER TO THE US GOVERNMENT FOR THE FEDERAL RESERVE BUT A HUGE ANNUAL REBATE which this year amounted to more than $98 billion.

          21. who buys gobernet debt and sells it back for a profit ? Hint primary dealers. 6% dividends, and primary dealers all make a profit. While citizens get taxation or slavery and the gobernet gets unmanageable debt service payments while the banksters own everything..

          22. It makes no difference once the total liquidity model is created. Capitalism is still incomplete.

            The conventional conservative argument is that currency should not be created from thin air. The liberal argument is that if it’s created from thin air, it should be centralized by way of the people, through government. It’s what they have in common that’s important. They are both centralized and have a focal point for power consolidation. That’s fine if the dollars are acting as measures on the light side of a completed yin-yang because the completion of the model is where the balance would be found.

            Besides, when played out to completion, debt management on the dark side takes on a symbiotic and highly responsible process of stewardship based on the presence of the weight based , debt free competition that acts as a governing force. Bankers can get away with things that they typically could never get away with if there was a competitive balance in place to force some aspect of market discipline. Right now, almost all liquidity is supplied by the “dark side”.

          23. Huh? Capitalism isn’t some kind of thing that could ever be “complete” as it is just a general ideology. Economies are always evolving and changing and are the aggregate of all financial transactions among the population of a country who uses the legal tender currency of that economy for all financial transactions.

            As to currency, what currency is all about is the EXCHANGE OF GOODS AND SERVICES IN ANY ECONOMY AMONG THE CITIZENS OF THAT ECONOMY and the amount of currency in circulation NEEDS TO BE PROPORTIONATE TO THE AMOUNT OF GOODS AND SERVICES EXCHANGES AND THE SIZE OF THE POPULATION. As a population expands along with the total amount of goods and services, A CURRENCY MUST PROPORTIONALLY EXPAND IN QUANTITY TO ACCOMMODATE THAT GROWTH IN THE ECONOMY AND POPULATION.

            Artificially constraining the growth of money supplies while the population is growing and assets are expanding substantially causes depressions and insufficient currency for the economy to operate let alone grow and expand along with the population.

          24. What you call currency for the sake of providing liquidity is what I’m simplifying by just saying liquidity because there are two types. Debt based & asset based. (L1 & L2) L1 is currently very dominant by comparison. No need to point it out.

            I think you’ve shown plenty of evidence that you only “live” on the dark side of the liquidity yin-yang. Blinded by the light ???

          25. Those assertions laughable preposterous nonsense and you’d get an “F” grade if you stated that on any economics exam.

          26. Probably …. because the pedagogy of the educational system is to “keep people in the now”. I understand change and more importantly, I understand powerful macro changes such as adding L2 to L1.

            It might interest you to know that I tutor university professors who teach economics. They are starting to grasp that L1 (debt) had to be created in order for L2 to come about in the order of their creation. The prime area of creative endeavor was the creation of a real-time value for bullion. Without that floating USD/oz value , there would be no bullion market such as the one we now have and bullion would have very restricted liquidity.

            Don’t struggle with it. Be happy it exists.

          27. Your bizarre and bogus notions are so far out in lunar orbit as to be beyond preposterously laughable.

          28. I’d suggest you learn the actual facts regarding money supply and the monetary base and you will rapidly discover that your nutzoidal notions are as bogus as a $3 bill.

          29. You just keep rolling While it gives us dumb guys more time to buy silver & gold, and will finish conversation in a few years.

          30. you said the federal reserve was “non-profit” though as admitted by your own fine print quote it pays DIVIDENDS THUS FIAT CURRENCY COMES AT A COST. Thus the FEDERAL RESERVE IS A for PROFIT business ! Thus federal private reserve notes users are charged to use it.

          31. Those are utterly false and totally bogus assertions. Dividends paid by the Federal Reserve to its member bank shareholders are NOT A COST TO THE US GOVERNMENT AT ALL.

            Don’t you even know what dividends are?

            Each and every company takes in REVENUES and out of those revenues pays all of its operating expenses as every company or business has OPERATING COSTS. If there is a positive balance in income left over after all operating costs are paid from revenues, then that balance is PROFITS EARNED by that company.

            A company can pay its owners / shareholders DIVIDENDS FROM THEIR PROFITS. In the case of the Federal Reserve it pays its member bank shareholders an annual 6% dividend of its profits. It then REBATES THE ENTIRE REMAINING AMOUNT OF PROFITS TO THE US TREASURY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE US GOVERNMENT.

            There is ZERO COSTS T THE US GOVERNMENT EACH YEAR FOR ANY EXPENSES OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE. Instead, there is now a HUGE NET REBATE REVENUE FROM THE FEDERAL RESERVE TO THE US GOVERNMENT which amounted to about $98 billion this year, making the Federal Reserve the single largest contributor of any entity to US government revenues.

          32. Hi guys,
            In this, even other gold bugs (albeit with more economics training) agree with socalbeachdude. If you keep insisting the problem with the Federal Reserve is that it is privately owned (eg. Reserve Bank of Australia is not), you are going to look like fools.
            Chuck

          33. You obviously do not comprehend the English language very well at all. I never stated that the federal reserve was “non-profit” at all, but rather very precisely stated ” In fact, the Federal Reserve acts essentially as a NOT-FOR-PROFIT entity.”

          34. Huh> Are you still that incapable of reading and comprehending the English language, dude? Really? Seriously?

          35. The difference is that this means the foreign federal reserve is controlled by private banksters for profit who sit on the federal reserve board. Who make business decisions not for the country but for their business. Which means more debt is more profit. In simple terms the fait currency system is based upon debt that taxes citizens and removed liberty, freedom, and democracy.

          36. The foreign federal reserve started with no assets. Though that 100 billion taken from taxpayers through inflation aka currency creation and taxation doesn’t even come close to servicing the debt. Though who buys debt and sells it to the gobernet at a profit ? Hint the same crooks who get paid that 6% dividend.

          37. Just add real assets and stir, Mikey. Bullion in circulation purges debt right out of existence.

          38. That is an absurdly false and ludicrous assertion. The total value of all of the gold even in the form of bullion is less than $2 trillion and the aggregate assets in the world is around $800 trillion in our $70+ trillion a year global economy. The total value of all gold ever mined is less than $7 trillion and 70% of that is in the form of jewelry. Compared to other assets, gold is just a tiny little speck of dust worth less than 1% of the value of global assets and has NO FINANCIAL RELEVANCE OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL in today’s world.

          39. Mikey … relax, man. Socal is “stuck in the moment” and doesn’t see that the dollar was developed to be a real-time measure to give gold the liquidity it could never have with a FIXED value.

          40. False. The US dollar was developed to acts as the currency for the US economy. Gold has never been anything other than a trivial little irrelevant niche fungible commodity and its primary purpose by a huge margin has always been for jewelry.

          41. Gold was at the heart of the Bretton Woods agreement and why the dollar was centralized so that it could be the gateway and the “measure of measures” when the peg was consequently severed in favor of a new real-time relationship between the measure (USD) and the weight. That characteristic is still with us today as what I call a “leftover”.

            The real-time relationship and floating gold measures are the only way to give gold fully scalable liquidity, while also maintaining its debt-free characteristics.

            Real-time liquidity has now “married” debt-free store of value.
            All are invited to “the great wedding”.

            If anyone ever thought that the FED shrouds itself with a little mystery, they have no idea how right they are .. LMAO.

            Even the elect will be deceived.

          42. The primary use of gold is and has always been for JEWELRY. Today GOLD HAS NO FINANCIAL RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER AND NEVER WILL EVER AGAIN in any sort of monetary matters.

          43. I’m relaxed. I want to find out if so cal can answer simple questions such as, If the gobernet borrowed the first federal reserve dollar into existence from the federal reserve how can it pay back the interest owed on that federal reserve note if they are the only thing that is “legal tender” ?
            So far he has claimed that the gobernet did not borrow federal reserve notes into existence but he never answered the question.
            Thus I asked him if the gobernet didn’t borrow the federal reserve note into existence then why did the gobernet borrow if it didn’t need to borrow ? Or if it wasn’t borrowed into existence then do federal reserve notes grow on money trees?
            So far I can only get mumbo jumbo out of him saying that I don’t understand this and that coupled with insults. But I do have some hope as he seems to go to great lengths attempting to explain his opinion.
            I think these are easy questions to answer what do you think?

          44. The federal reserve is a private bank for profit it has nothing to do with the gobernet except one persons is appointed by the president. Otherwise it has nothing to do with the gobernet except bankrupting it.

          45. The Federal Reserve is a quasi-private/public banks that has special status because of its creation by and governance by the FEDERAL RESERVE ACT.

            The Federal Reserve does not cost US taxpayers a single penny. In fact, the Federal Reserve acts essentially as a NOT-FOR-PROFIT entity and REBATES NEARLY $100 BILLION A YEAR TO THE US TREASURY and is the single biggest source of revenues for the US government each year.

            Federal Reserve Press Release 01/09/2015

            “The Federal Reserve Board on Friday announced preliminary unaudited results indicating that the Reserve Banks provided for payments of approximately $98.7 billion of their estimated 2014 net income to the U.S. Treasury. Under the Board’s policy, the residual earnings of each Federal Reserve Bank are distributed to the U.S. Treasury, after providing for the costs of operations, payment of dividends, and the amount necessary to equate surplus with capital paid-in.”

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/press/other/20150109a.htm

            I would suggest you learn about the Federal Reserve at:

            http://www.FederalReserve.gov

          46. I suggest you look up the fine print the Federal foreign private reserve has shareholders that are paid a dividend of 6%. As you quote “…after providing the costs of operations, PAYMENT OF DIVIDENDS,…” Furthermore central banking and central taxation go hand in hand thus the IRS is part of the system. HENCE YOU ARE TAXED FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF USING FEDERAL RESERVE NOTES…
            Thus the federal reserve costs you that 6% dividend plus taxation. therefore the private federal reserve is a for profit bank.

          47. The Federal Reserve HAS ABSOLUTELY ZERO COST TO THE US GOVERNMENT AND ITS TAXPAYERS, and CREATES HUGE NET REVENUES TURNED OVER TO THE US GOVERNMENT AND ITS TAXPAYERS that this year were around $98 billion making the Federal Reserve the single largest contributor to federal revenues by far.

            All US Treasuries owned by the Federal Reserve are ESSENTIALLY INTEREST FREE TO THE US GOVERNMENT as the Federal Reserve holds only about $2.2 trillion in US Treasuries and about $1.8 trillion in MBS instruments and the 94% OF THE PROFITS ON BOTH OF THOSE SECURITIES CLASSES ARE REBATED TO THE US TREASURY BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE EACH YEAR.

            The 6% dividend paid by the Federal Reserve is PAID OUT OF THE PROFITS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE and has NO COST WHATSOEVER TO THE US GOVERNMENT OR ITS TAXPAYERS as it is merely profit sharing from the profits of the Federal Reserve which gets 94% of the annual profits of the Federal Reserve.

            The IRS has nothing whatsoever to do with the Federal Reserve. The IRS is a division of the US Treasury.

          48. Did you even read your own quote obviously not.
            KEY WORD DIVIDEND …
            DIVIDENDS ARE PAID TO SHAREHOLDERS WHO ARE PART OWNERS IN A FOR PROFIT COMPANY..
            Taxation and central banking go hand in hand. One does not exist without the other. Taxation is required in order for central private banking to exist as that money is turned over to the fed in order to service the debt incurred from gobernet borrowing.

          49. Taxation has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CENTRAL BANKING. Taxation in the US is done by the US government and the US Treasury which is entirely separate and distinct from the Federal Reserve. As to your assertions that tax money is turned over to the Federal Reserve, YOU HAVE THAT 180 DEGREES REVERSED. NOT A SINGLE PENNY OF TAX REVENUES GO TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE AT ALL. None, nada, nil, zip, and zilch.

            INSTEAD, THE FEDERAL RESERVE PAYS THE US TREASURY JUST UNDER $100 BILLION A YEAR NOW IN REBATES OF ITS PROFITS WHICH MAKES THE FEDERAL RESERVE THE SINGLE LARGEST CONTRIBUTOR TO US TREASURY REVENUES IN THE US with no other source even coming remotely close.

          50. Where does your tax money go after the gobernet collects it from the treasury (courtesy of the IRS) ? Back to the gobernet ? To the IRS ? Back to the treasury ? hmm
            If taxes don’t go back to the federal reserve then where do they go ?
            If the federal reserve pays the treasury does the treasury pay the gobernet debt and if so who do they pay that currency to ?
            Here is a simple flow chart for sun baked dude
            taxpayer-illegal IRS enforced collection-treasury-private foreign federal reserve- service payment on 18 trillion this is the flow of taxpayer collected currency.

          51. Huh? The US TREASURY IS THE US GOVERNMENT and is the department that handles the financial affairs of the US government. The IRS is a DIVISION OF THE US TREASURY.

            No taxes collected by the US government go to the Federal Reserve other than to pay off matured US Treasuries.

            I would suggest you learn what the US Treasury is and how it works which you can do in extensive detail at:

            http://www.TreasuryDirect.gov

          52. And the foreign private Federal reserve has shareholders who are foreign and it is not part of the us gobernet as it is a private for profit business. The fed loans currency to the gobernet at interest. Thus the treasury pays the fed via taxation courtesy irs thanks to the taxpayer. This is how gobernet services the debt in addition, to other Ponzi schemes.

          53. Your assertion as to the “foreign private Federal Reserve” is totally false and utterly bogus. You obviously continue to totally fail to comprehend the Federal Reserve and I would suggest you learn about it at:

            http://www.Federal Reserve.gov.

            The Federal Reserve certainly does not pay the Federal Reserve other than for the principal and interest on tje US Treasuries that the Federal Reserve owns just like it pays all holders / owners of US Treasuries, but tje difference is that the FEDERAL RESERVE REBATES ESSENTIALLY ALL INTEREST PAID TO IT BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO THE US TREASURY essentially making the US Treasuries owned by the Federal Reserve INTEREST FREE to the US government and its taxpayers..

          54. hehe now you are arguing with yourself “the federal reserve has foreign corporate shareholders”, “The federal reserve…pays dividends” rolf Thus the foreign federal private reserve is owned by foreigners and charges interest (of 6% not including taxes required to service the loans borrowed by the gobernet to the fed.) Now lets see if you can argue with yourself hahaha hehehe I cant wait…

          55. There is nothing “foreign” about the Federal Reserve and its ownership is 100% by US member bank corporations.

          56. shareholders of the ffed who compromise foreign corporations are foreigners lol just like you quoted

          57. Nearly all US banks, particularly the top 20 banks in the US have a substantial portion of foreign shareholders, but that doesn’t make them foreign banks, not down foreign parent ownership of US subsidiaries of foreign banks such as Deutsche Bank, UBS, etc. make those US incorporated subsidiaries foreign banks.

          58. well aware of bis and who owns it who are the same banksters who set up the federal reserve and who have ties to the bank of England and so forth.

          59. Are you not aware that Europe has been around for many hundreds of centuries whereas the United States of America is a very newcomer on the block and has only been a country for 239 years? Where would you like to see the BIS located? Next to some pig farm in Nebraska, USA?

          60. If BIS did not exist the world would be a far safer place. A pig farm is too good for a place to put bis perhaps the sewer would be far more appropriate.

          61. I know your point and it’s a good one. P + I is always greater than P.

            If you look at P as being liquidity, something I refer to as debt based liquidity (L1), that liquidity is only part of the a total yin-yang of liquidity. The debt resides on the “dark side”. The light side of that yin-yang (which is incomplete) has yet to be inflated. That would be where L2 resides where L2 is comprised of real assets that circulate, such as bullion. Combining the 2 types of liquidity creates a sum of L1 + L2, allowing L1 to be reduced.

            Bullion in circulation allows for fiat based debt to be repaid and destroyed by freeing up the fiat for the indebted hands to find it in the marketplace.

            Just add assets and stir …… gently. Destroy nothing. Gold is a real-time currency.

          62. Those assertions are totally false and beyond ludicrously so. The total amount of gold bullion that even exists is only worth about $2 trillion and practically none of it is in any way in circulation in the US or global economy and the total amount of the global economy GDP is around $70+ trillion and the total aggregate amount of all global debt is around $200 trillion.

            You appear to have no comprehension whatsoever of those number and appear to think that the tiny little miniscule aggregate value of gold has any relationship at all to real money and debt in the real world, which, of course, it does not – even in the slightest. Moreover, gold has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CURRENCY and is obviously NOT ACCEPTED AS CURRENCY ANYWHERE nor will it ever be for very obvious reasons, not the least of which is its WILDLY FLUCTUATION AND TOTALLY UNSTABLE VALUE.

          63. too silly gold can be revalued or fiat currency can be devalued. Thus numbers can be easily changed. Lower total currency supply = increased purchasing power etc

          64. Where do you come up with the bogus notion that lower total currency supply equals increased purchasing power? That is so nonsensically false as to be laughable. As to purchasing power of the US dollar, it has skyrocketed by 80% against gold and 120% against silver over the past 4 years despite about a 20% an increase in the US dollar money supply. Hellllooooo?

          65. The US has been rather efficient at exporting dollars. Wait til they come home in an attempt to “cash the cheque”.

          66. funny reply sbd unlimited currency=worthlessness vs limited currency worth something. In order for money to retain value it must be rare unlike paper which is common which is why rare one of a kind paintings or cars are worth more than common everyday mass produced cars. Very simple concept. Actually fiat currency is tanking relative to gold at one time it was 20.00 to 1 ounce where as today its well over 1100…Thus fiat currency is a complete train wreak.

          67. Why are you again so totally lost in hypotjetical speculation that has little to nothing to do with reality?

            As to the US dollar, it is doing spectacularly well and is right around 94 on the DXY today and has skyrocketed in purchasing power against most all of the world’s 27 major commodities over the past 4 years and is the Bloomberg Commodity Inde is now at a 12 year low not seen since 2002 as the prices of commodities in US dollars have plunged over the past 4 years and axiomatically the purchasing power of the US dollar against those commodities has soared.

            What is a complete train wreck is commodities prices including that of gold and silver which have plummeted 34% and 60% respectively over the past 4 years and which are headed much lower including further plunges today in both of those preposterously overpriced little niche fungible speculative metals.

          68. Are you suggesting gold and fiat currency ie paper with numbers cannot be revalued ? lol silly
            Who cares if the federal reserve foreign dollar is doing ok today? Its lost ground to gold since its birth in 1913. From 18.92 to 1282.50 in 2015. That a beating over 100 years if I ever saw one. Soon the dollar will be choked out lets see if it taps out before dying….

          69. Nothing can be a currency with a constantly changing value and no stated nominal value – obviously. That would create a situation where ACCOUNTING WOULD NOT EVEN BE POSSIBLE FINANCIALLY for transactions, and accounting is essential for all financial transactions which must be precise in exactly amounts like dollars and cents clearly and accurately provide.

            As to the value of the US dollar over the past 100 years…

            No, the dollar did NOT really lose 95% of its value since 1913

            Let us take at the period from 1913-2006, where we have complete data. So what do they mean, when they say the dollar lost 95.1% of its value in those 93 years? Essentially, an average good/service that cost $1 in 2006, used to be priced at 4.9 cents in 1913. In other words, the average price level of goods/services increased by 1930% since 1913. True, but guess what, average earned income increased by 6560% during the same time period. Average earned income rose from $740/yr in 1913 to $49,300/yr in 2006. Adjusting for inflation, $740/yr in 1913 is $15,000/yr in 2006 dollars. Average incomes, not only kept pace, but beat price inflation by 230%.

            So does it make any sense all to say the dollar lost value? In reality, the REAL purchasing power of the average American, has increased by 230% in the past century. Sure, prices were cheap in 1913, but $740/yr doesn’t buy you a whole lot, not anymore than 15,000/yr today.

            http://realfactbias.blogspot.com/2012/02/no-dollar-did-not-really-lose-95-of-its.html

          70. too silly currencies can increase or decrease in purchasing power just like federal reserve note can or metals.
            If the federal private reserve not did not loose purchasing power then why are more dollars required to buy the same goods and services since 1913 ?

            If the foreign federal reserve note remained constant in purchasing power then the price would remain constant which is obviously not the case. Hence currencies leak because they can be devalued thanks to central banking policies or in the recent safe haven appeal gold actually rose 1.5 % against gold.

            If incomes kept pace with inflation and prices don’t increase as a result then why does the gobernet keep rising min wages ? If that was true then the min wage should be at 1913 levels or better yet min wage laws likely did not exist since inflation did not kick in until quite some time after the gobernet borrowed a significant amount of foreign federal reserve notes after the implantation of the federal reserve on us soil to create inflation and thus unemployment.

          71. CURRENCIES DO NOT CHANGE AS TO THEIR STATED FACE NOMINAL VALUES which is how they are accounted for and what they are worth when doing financial transactions.

            Purchasing power is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT.

            Most price increases or decreases in goods and services have nothing whatsoever to do with the US dollar and never have.

            As to the value of the US dollar over the past 100 years…

            No, the dollar did NOT really lose 95% of its value since 1913

            Let us take at the period from 1913-2006, where we have complete data. So what do they mean, when they say the dollar lost 95.1% of its value in those 93 years? Essentially, an average good/service that cost $1 in 2006, used to be priced at 4.9 cents in 1913. In other words, the average price level of goods/services increased by 1930% since 1913. True, but guess what, average earned income increased by 6560% during the same time period. Average earned income rose from $740/yr in 1913 to $49,300/yr in 2006. Adjusting for inflation, $740/yr in 1913 is $15,000/yr in 2006 dollars. Average incomes, not only kept pace, but beat price inflation by 230%.

            So does it make any sense all to say the dollar lost value? In reality, the REAL purchasing power of the average American, has increased by 230% in the past century. Sure, prices were cheap in 1913, but $740/yr doesn’t buy you a whole lot, not anymore than 15,000/yr today.

            http://realfactbias.blogspot.com/2012/02/no-dollar-did-not-really-lose-95-of-its.html

          72. ROLF SBD…”It wasn’t until President Roosevelt devalued the US dollar against gold in the 1930′s, and President Nixon took us off the gold standard in 1971, that we began to see pronounced price inflation in goods and services vs. the dollar.

            In addition to a significant decline in the value of the Dow Jones versus gold, Larry Edelson points out that other asset classes are also losing value to the precious metal:

            (Over the last 10 years)

            Gross Domestic Product vs. Gold: Loss of 62%

            Median Home Prices vs. Gold: Loss of 70%

            Per-Capita Income vs. Gold: Loss of 70%

            Beef vs. Gold: Loss of 63%

            Edelson argues that, “In real terms, we have witnessed massive deflation that already rivals the deflation of the Great Depression.”

            Depending on the point of reference, it is possible to see why some people hold the belief that we did, in fact, have a recovery. They continue to price their assets in terms of dollars, trillions of which were pumped into the system as stimulus, bailouts and tax credits. Because prices “recovered” from their 2009 lows, people assume that they have “stabilized.” However, in real terms vs. gold, prices have actually continued to decline!

            Perhaps this is why most people haven’t realized we’re in a depression.” 😉

          73. The US dollar was not “devalued against gold” at all in 1933. The price of gold was simply increased. The PRICES OF MOST ALL GOODS AND SERVICES IN THE US FELL SUBSTANTIALLY DURING THE 1930s in dollar terms.

            Nixon did not “abandon gold” at all. Nixon merely ended the Bretton Woods currency fixed exchange rate agreement which had been in force from 1944 to 1971.

            Nixon had nothing to do with the “gold standard” in the US which had long ago been TOTALLY DISCARDED BY THE US DOMESTICALLY back in 1933 and only a tiny shred of gold nonsense was even left in the form of international bank transaction convertibility which is what was discarded in 1971.

          74. Good point and why, since 1971, you should have been looking at the weight rather than being mesmerized by the dollar (the measure).

          75. Obviously the “weight” of gold has nothing to do with anything other than as a unit of measure to price the stuff just the same way that oranges, apples, and bananas are priced in grocery stores.

          76. I notice you use the word “obviously” a great deal …. a strong sign of very poor confidence.

            The weight is not just a form of measure, it’s proof of the value that is intrinsic to real economic activity in the bullion’s production. Did nobody inform you that you can’t print these ounces of gold. The have to be worked.

          77. The 1933 experience was why Bretton Woods was developed as a way to arrive at real-time gold so that if gold needed to be reevaluated, it could be, but fairy … by the market. A market elevation of the gold price in 1933 wasn’t possible based on what capabilities we were limited to. Gold was not something that freely traded in the market in 33. That was a major catalyst for the development of Bretton Woods. Revaluations today, are done in the market. That’s what’s occurring now, but now we can use the actual gold weight as the currency since it now has elasticity in its economic reach …… and debt-free.

          78. The Bretton Woods Agreement had practically nothing whatsoever to do with gold and was created in 1944 to establish a FIXED RATE CURRENCY EXCHANGE SYSTEM. The nonsensical and extremely stupid failed experiment called the “gold standard” had been ended 11 years prior to when the Bretton Woods Agreement was created and went in effect.

          79. I’ve wasted enough time on this idiotic conversation with someone who has no soul to speak of but I couldn’t resist this one.

            Bretton Woods was created on the back of what happened in 1933 during the FDR administration when, by fiat, the price of gold was adjusted from $20.XX/oz to $35.00/oz.

            Was the method of how this change by proclamation fair to the market ? Please answer because you credibility is seriously on the line now.

            How else could the price of gold have been set other than by fiat at that time ? Was there any practical capability for the market to set the price at that time ?

            The design and demise of Bretton Woods (both ends) was what brought the system in line with what we have today, where bullion floats in market context.

          80. 1933 was but a very distant 11 year old memory at the time that the Bretton Woods Agreement was established in 1944 during World War II.

          81. Gold is being accepted more and more around the world. The tide is moving toward assets. It can’t possibly move toward any more debt in the long run. We’d destroy ourselves.

            Last summer , I traded gold directly for car parts, so obviously you’re mistaken. I know several people who now trade using bullion. It’s a natural part of fulfilling the yang side of a liquidity yin-yang. It’s light that springs forth from darkness in the process of creation, my adolescent friend. Learn that.

            Nobody is claiming that available gold has to balance out $200 trillion because the objective is not to purge all debt. Our problem is not debt , it’s too much debt that is out of balance.

            It’s easy to see that this is all new ground for you as you assume how things may shape up. The real-time gold paradigm of the yin-yang (the light side) could only come about as a result of the debt side having been created first, as a matter of order. We had to develop a real-time flexible trade value for bullion, thus the need for a floating “USD/oz”. This was all engineered by the powers that be between 1944 and 1971 before the gold price was set free …. and only thereafter were Americans , again, allowed to own bullion (1975).

            The stage is set. Look for bullion based payment systems to come out this year. I’m expecting 2-3 to emerge in the next 6 months. They will ditribute gold backed currency which amounts to the digitized ownership title to allocated bullion by using weight as the unit of account. Dollars will be the prime measuring tool, using the real-time values from the market.

            Everything has its time. You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins.

          82. Gold bullion is NOT ACCEPTED ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD AS A CURRENCY and never will be. What on earth does the little niche collectible metal commodity called gold have to do with debt or anything else financially?

          83. An ounce is an ounce and the instability you see is relative to the measurement device or the measuring stick, which is much like a rubber ruler. I’m referring to the dollar, of course.

            A rubber ruler works quite well as long as the measurement comparisons that the ruler makes are instantaneous. This is how we can compare an ounce of gold trading for a modern TV….. debt-free. The dollar’s ultimate purpose is to facilitate debt-free transactions. It is not strictly to act as a currency for settlement.

            The idea is not to argue but to agree that we want to see debt-free trading that has ample of liquidity as a good complement.

          84. What on earth are you even talking about? Obviously there are CODIFIED STANDARDS OF MEASURE on everything. What on earth does that have to do with the market value assigned for a commodity based on one of the standard units of measure of weight?

          85. sounds interesting to me perhaps as a good transition like silver certificates that jfk was murdered while trying to replace fed foreign res notes. Including several other great presidents who understood …thanks for the input.

          86. Now you are coming up with wild and baseless conspiracy theories on the assassination of JFK with no basis whatsoever – obviously – to support such asinine assertions. Really? Seriously?

          87. lol funny how all assassinated presidents where trying to do the same thing isn’t it. Mere coincidence, don’t think so perhaps studying the monetary policies of presidents is in order.. lol

          88. JFK had those certificates issued before there was a severance to the price peg. I have to wonder what would have happened if what JFK put into place may have proliferated. Could the short term gains endeared the American people to a fixed peg ? If so , would the severance that took place in 71 have come about ? Delayed ? Who knows ?

            A proper monetization of bullion with floating values is essential given that bullion is a limited and finite resource. Let the trade value rise on the basis of a demand for liquidity …. split the weight.

          89. One would think that the federal reserve note would be replaced slowly over time thus making for an easier weaning off of them making the eventual transfer to an American currency.

          90. Mikey … you’re thinkin but it can’t be done quite that way. It cannot be a top-down process by proclamation of by fiat because we are operating in real-time. If the market perceived a top-down wholesale change, I’m sure the market would rush to the exits on the current system, which would sink the USD and the whole fiat system. They are vital as the real-time measures on the “light side” within in the liquidity yin-yang. They would also act as the currencies that we are familiar with on the “dark side”. Nothing gets destroyed. The process of moving from “the dark” to “the light” has to be a process of what I simply call “market osmosis”, organically.

          91. could it not be implemented like jfk’s silver certificates ?
            ie slowly, gradually over time taking out fed reserve notes out of circulation..

          92. JFK had nothing whatsoever to do with Silver Certificate versions of US dollars. Silver certificates were most popular during the 1930s and were gradually phased out of existence and then totally pulled out of circulation buy the early 1970s. Silver Certificates, by the way, had blue seals on them.

            The only new form of printed US currency introduced during the JFK years was “United States Notes” which had a red seal.

          93. he understood banksters and knew what they were up to just listen to his speeches its quite clear. He knew what he was up against anyone who knows what silver certificates vs federal reserve note are they will understand.

          94. The only thing JFK signed in relationship to US dollars in Silver Certificate form was Executive Order 11110 was issued by U.S. President John F. Kennedy on June 4, 1963 and which was not in any way consequential at all.

            This executive order delegated to the Secretary of the Treasury the president’s authority to issue silver certificates under the Thomas Amendment of the Agricultural Adjustment Act, as amended by the Gold Reserve Act. The order allowed the Secretary to issue silver certificates, if any were needed, during the transition period under President Kennedy’s plan to eliminate Silver Certificates and use Federal Reserve Notes.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110

          95. ahh now you admit he had something to do with silver certificates and fiat currencies lol

          96. Huh? The Federal Reserve never had anything to do with US dollar silver certificates which were issued by the US TREASURY from 1867 to 1964 in the United States. They were not Federal Reserve Notes.

          97. hehe what a joker the foreign federal private reserve makes its notes while the us gobernet via the us treasury made silver certificates. Thus one is a private fiat currency while the other is us currency ..hehe Thus you are correct the foreign federal reserve has nothing to do with us currency silver fiat certificates…

          98. You’re in danger of an assumption that may be false. Be careful not to default to the opinion of other people’s perceived intention when you can ignore intention and look at the facts that are based on the capability axiom.

            Gresham’s Law as applied to historical bullion in the currency role was about hoarding. People simply hung on because they felt they were not getting proper value. This is why the price had to be set free. It’s only since real-time pricing and higher trade values that bullion has become more liquid and will become more liquid. We all have our price. Bullion was not the problem. The problem was the fixed peg.

            Kennedy’s top-down approach was on the basis of a fixed peg. You can safely go to a fixed peg by proclamation. You cannot use a proclamation when moving to bullion when you’re in a real-time environment. There would be an insanely mad rush for the exits. People holding paper would get royally screwed. Everyone has a chance by way of the market, however. Rate of change is greatly tempered this way. Let the market arbitrate and be the judge. Consider that bullion has been floating since 71. Did you see a mad rush, as yet ?

            The Yin-Yang I refer to is a liquidity Yin-Yang. Debt rules the dark. Assets rule the light. We are due for a migration from the debt paradigm which is highly inflated. We move from dark to light in this case. It’s a simple process of market osmosis. it becomes symbiotic and stable at some point because as the light side becomes larger, the amount of debt in circulation shrinks. Circulating assets allows for debt to be removed. We are not dealing with a pegged currency so as I stated above, Gresham’s Law in the manner that it has applied in the past does not apply here.

            As gold rises in trade value, it will be progressively monetized more and more as sure as night follows day.

          99. I understand how Gresham’s law was applied in the case of circulating coins. Though in the case of imbedded metal bullion notes that have no price in numbers affixed but rather the weight of metal defining the value of the note imbedded on them would they not act in the same manner as coins relative to Gresham’s law? Would this not solve the problem of a fixed peg to the metals ?
            Especially if federal reserve notes were circulating concurrently with imbedded bullion notes in the same manner that silver certificates were circulating with federal reserve notes. Once the imbedded bullion currency was in circulation then the federal reserve notes could be gradually retired.
            I believe Gresham’s law would apply and the metal currency notes would be hoarded until the time that federal reserve notes were removed from circulation as they would become the only “legal tender” medium of exchange.
            In his manner something of intrinsic value that is rare is added to the currency which cannot be “printed” into oblivion unlike fiat currencies.
            Furthermore, bank deposits could be determined by the amount of metal that the bill represents. Would this not help to produce a more honest accountable currency system decreasing the ability to devalue currencies, limiting gobernet borrowing into oblivion, and so forth ?
            This would be in addition to banking structural reforms addressing fractional reserve banking, derivatives, and so on.
            I think a banking system with this type of currency is possible and would be a huge improvement over the current system.
            Although it may not be feasible in reality if 85 people own about 50% of the earth. These people would have to have a large part of their wealth confiscated though the 99.99 % of the rest of the population would remain unscathed for the most part.
            These are my thoughts on the matter and it would be interesting to hear your take on the idea..thanks

          100. The weight denominated notes, if fully backed by real weight and callable on demand, would be as good as a metal coin, yes. The same can be said for digitizing the weight, as we saw in the case of e-gold or goldmoney.com. Everything has to be weighted based and that only works now that the liquidity, which is directly proportional to price, has been set free. The mission statement of creating a floating USD/oz appears to have been a focal point for the 20th century.

            Because gold has an undeniable intrinsic relationship to economic activity, proof of which is in the weight, it needs no legal tender status. Legal tender is a “dark side” concept …a crutch for fiat currency because fiat, although it abides by man’s law, does not abide by market law.

            Market currency for market law. Debt based currency for man’s law.

            The use of bullion in any trade would have to be a matter of agreement, of course.

            Bullion and or bullion backed weighted currency (paper or digits) will only be hoarded on the basis that the market feels the trade value is too low. That’s all. That’s our mission statement now. Bullion will be monetized at an increasing pace as the price moves higher. People will shed the desire to hold on, which is really what Gresham’s Law is all about. I don’t care for the term “good money” and “bad more”. I think undervalued and overvalued is far more accurate and paints a much clearer picture.

            Bullion is in an “investment leg” of this process right now (dark side) , for the most part. As the price continues to rise, the yin-yang will become more balanced, the dollar will strengthen (based on better stewardship) and gold will taper off at some point with a slightly upward bias, but unlike the early 1980’s gold will not crash because it will have a new application to flow into, one of currency, that the early 1980’s was not ready for.

            The most hidden truth in the morphing of this completion to the liquidity model is seeing that the process is primarily market driven and bottom-up. We tend to default to top-down logic when speaking about monetary issues and monetary systems because history bears them out. Thank God for placing eyes in the front of our heads rather than in the back …. LOL

          101. Those assertions are utter nonsense, and your same bogus arguments regarding gold would apply to EVERY SINGLE COMMODITY OUT THERE. There is nothing unique whatsoever about gold as a commodity.

            All commmodity prices are set by market pricing which is typically based on suppy and demand and the fact of the matter is that nearly all commodity prices have ben plummeting by the past 4 years and are down 30% to 60% or more during that time and have now hit a 12 year low on the Bloomberg Commodity Index not seen since 2002 and are headed much lower, including, of course, gold.

          102. Had to be eliminated to make room for their real-time resurrection. This is why the ownership ban for Americans took place regarding bullion and was only lifted after the price was set free to float . The peg severance was 71 and Americans could own bullion again in 1975

          103. Huh? Federal Reserve Notes are US DOLLARS. There are fewer than $900 billion US dollars in printed form even in existence. Most all of the M2 money supply in the US of over $12 trillion is ELECTRONIC these days and that has been the case for many years.

          104. Huh? What certificates did JFK have issued? The only thing I can think of in reference to what you are asserting is that there were a very limited number of US Treasury issued “United States Notes” with red seals during the early 1960s, but those were of no consequences at all other than being considered collector items today.

            The total amount of all gold ever mined is only around 180,000 metric tonnes which is about the amount that would fill 2 Olympic sized swimming pools and which at today’s gold prices is worth less than $7 billion and is continuing to plunge in price. Of that amount, about 70^% is in the form of JEWELRY widely dispersed around the world leaving less than $2 trillion even in the form of bullion which doesn’t amount to even one-quarter of 1% of global assets of around $800 trillion.

            Your total failure to comprehend the big picture financially is mind boggling. GOLD HAS NO FINANCIAL RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER and is just a TINY LITTLE TRIVIAL NICHE COLLECTIBLE COMMODITY OF ESSENTIALLY NO AGGREGATE VALUE OF ANY SIGNIFICANCE WHATSOEVER relative to the other assets in the world.

          105. You are correct after jfk was murdered they were removed from circulation.
            Once again you are playing with numbers, fiat currency can devalued/revalued and gold can rise in price thus price(numbers) are irrelevant.
            Therefore price means nothing in this situation.

          106. Obviously, bullion HAS NO EARNING POWER WHATSOEVER and the total amount of it that “circulates” each year is only the market supply of 4,650 metric tonnes worth less than $234 billion. Obviously, gold bullion does not create any credits or anything else and is just a fungible commodity that is bought and sold in the commodities markets with its total sales annually being less than half the sales of Wal-Mart.

          107. Good system , yes. We have to improve on the currency within the system to make it free from debt. Fiat currency has no “weight” in this area.

            The new wineskin has promise, however.

          108. Huh? Debt is nothing else than money loaned from one party to another for a specific time duration.

          109. Indeed now banksters can steal wealth by typing numbers into a computer how quaint. Very advanced bankers I agree.

          110. He fulfilled the LAW by making way for a new structural paradigm within the Holy Spirit. The HS’s structural omnipresence cannot be captured , beaten , jailed, controlled or manipulated in any way. You can crucify the messenger all you want. The Word lives and Jesus died for the Word so that we might be able to graduate to other levels of structural consciousness that work toward the weaning out of the structural greed factor at the “social apex”. Hierachy sucks and we have been supply driven since “the apple was shoved in our faces”.

            You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins and the age of information is like a new wineskin.

          111. The bankers you referred to are not the bankers Alexandre referred to. Just because you both spelled the word b-a-n-k-e-r does not mean a banker at the beginning of Western civilization was the same as a modern banker.

      2. you’ll hang, bankster dude. And your “Guest” vote, too. The only two people who ever give yourself “likes.”

        1. Your utter disrespect for banking professionals is absolutely appalling, dude or dudette, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

          1. Sorry pal, nobody’s buying your nonsense. Sell crazy someplace else, we’re all stocked up here.

          2. I’d suggest you start properly respecting banking professionals without whom the financial system simply would not function.

          3. I agree… they make a lousy currency but a truly great measuring tool for debt-free transactions.

          4. No. fact –> When you calculate a debt-free trade using gold as a currency, you are almost always contending with the fact that the item that the gold trades for (debt-free) is something that is priced in a fiat currency. We cannot overlook people’s habits for the sake of a good theory, only.

            That fiat price has to be brought to a real-time USD price point and then compared to the price of bullion in USD’s. From there, a bullion settlement weight can be determined for the trade, such as an ounce of gold for a top line digital television set, just as an example.

            The dollar is used in the trade. It’s important. Specifically, the dollar is used as a measuring tool (USD/oz) in real-time but the settlement currency in the example is gold weight. Something has to bridge the “divide” of the fiat pricing of the TV and the gold weight settlement. That something is where the dollar provides a useful service in the ultimate quest of being able to support a debt-free transaction. In the transaction, the dollar serves as a measure…. a translator.

            There was no way to have the dollar serve in the above capacity without the dollar first serving an “apprenticeship” for the sake of market traction/orientation. That “apprenticeship” has been/ is in the role of the debt-currency that you are familiar with.

            What ultimately comes about is a liquidity “yin-yang” of debt & assets where we can now add L2 (asset liquidity) to the existing L1 (debt liquidity).

            Need I remind you that in the process of creation , it is light (yang) that springs forward from darkness (yin).

            Just add assets and stir gently …. destroy nothing. 🙂

          5. Gold obviously cannot be used in way as a “currency” and gold has no relevance whatsoever to money and currency.

          6. We are all free to trade bullion for goods and services. There are no laws to prohibit this.

          7. Nobody accepts bullion as any form of currency and using it to trade for goods and services is nothing other than BARTER.

          8. Sophisticated barter considering that weight, as a unit of account, can be digitized. Debt free trading is something to rejoice, not be critical of.

          9. Every physical substance has a weight including apples, oranges, and banana’s? Why your ridiculous fixation with weight which only has relevance as a unit of measure?

          10. Gold weight is intrinsic proof of the real economic activity that went into the gold production. The work precedes the creation of the finished coin or ingot. This makes bullion undeniably free from debt. The debt has been paid. A finished gold product is not an IOU.

            The weight as a unit of measure is another useful feature, yes.

      3. Economies would function without bankers just on a smaller scale, and smaller scales means people wouldn’t have to work 40 hour weeks just to survive and two household workers.

        1. Nope. No modern economies could function without banking and bankers at all in our modern and wonderful financial world.

          1. What I stated is not a “theory” but rather a fact There was also a world that functioned not all that long ago without indoor plumbing and without toilet paper. You want to go back to those days? Helllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooo?

          2. Tighter credit has been based on an over abundance of debt creation. That kind of austerity doesn’t need to exist if real assets are circulating. They take the burden off debt to support the whole economy. Again, this is an issue of sharing the total liquidity pool (yin & yang) between the debt instruments (L1) and the asset instruments L2 . Right at this moment, there is far far too much L1.

            I like a little yang with my yin … 😉

            Step into the light.

          3. Yep … the idea is to combine and integrate liquidity and debt-free assets. That’s what the system has evolved to now, by using real-time gold weight (floating) , but being creatures of habit, most have not recognized it and still default to “dark side thinking”. We don’t really have a systemic design problem with using fully scalable bullion at this time. We only have a marketing challenge.

          4. I have some nice gold jewelry but never hold the stuff as it is all shoved into the bottom of a drawer and as to silver I have a dining room filled with a vast amount of silverware collected over the past 100 years or so and wish I never had to hold the stuff. Back in the day when Beulah was with us she used to keep it shiny but these days it rarely ever gets polished.

          5. hey I have some pretty paper with numbers on it. How about you give me your gold and I will give you my paper…sound like a good deal?

          6. I suppose you could just sell that gold jewelry and silverware to a precious metal lover and ease the hassle of holding such Items.

          7. Why would I bother to sell the stuff when it is only worth a few tens of thousands of dollars? That wouldn’t be the worth the time or effort.

          1. self serving circular logic is not impressive.
            You still fail to answer the basic question if the federal gobernet loans the first federal reserve note into existence and it has to pay interest on it where does the currency to do so in order to pay its debt off?

          2. The federal government certainly does not “loan the first federal reserve note into existence” at all. Where do you come up with such totally nutzoidal and bogus notions?

          3. Really where did the gobernet get its first federal reserve note from then? Did they give the gobernet a Christmas gift of federal reserve notes? If the gobernet need to borrow then why borrow from the federal reserve in the first place? Are you saying the gobernet started the federal reserve now and not private bankers? Attempting to rewrite history again..lol
            hmm think about that one dude… ps dude is well overused in so cal etc, it’s time to retire that slang word.. I used it over 20 years ago when I lived there. Don’t you think its time to let it go, dude? Huh dude?

          4. Why keep putting up such BLATANTLY FALSE assertions, dude? Why the TOTALLY FALSE PROPAGANDA? Is the Boogers Against Truth Association (GATA) really that desperate at this stage as all of their propaganda is being blown to shreds and the price of gold continues to plummet? What a bunch of pathetic lying imbeciles and OUTRIGHT FRAUDS.

          5. hey so cal its time to get off the drugs, dude they are eating your brain.
            Answer the questions and stop the diversions. Where did the first federal reserve note come from ? Did a magician conjure it into existence or was it borrowed into existence? Come on dude your brain can’t be that fried…Its an easy question to answer..

          6. The only conclusion I can draw from your EXTRAORDINARILY STUPID AND TOTALLY FALSE ASSERTIONS is that you are either a TOTAL FOOL OR INTENTIONAL PROPAGANDIST as there is no other explanation at all for your foolish asininity.

          7. Is the question too difficult for you to answer ? Come on its an easy question I know you can solve it dude.

          8. You two guys need a common point of agreement to move forward.

            Try this.

            The monetary challenge of the ages has been to combine the debt-free benefit of real assets with fully scalable demand driven liquidity. If you can focus on the qualities of that goal, then the real-time marriage of the measure (USD) and the weight (bullion) will come together like two hands in a prayer.

            All are invited to the great wedding. 🙂

        1. They make a damn good real-time measure …. not such a great currency but a good relative measure for asset comparisons

          1. Nothing without a FIXED STATED NOMINAL VALUE has even the slightest capability to act as a currency. OBVIOUSLY.

          2. too silly…

            “At the heart of the matter is the difference between the nominal value of an asset, and its real value.

            You see, when the world was on a gold standard, there was never any discussion in the markets of the terms nominal versus real. They were one and the same.

            They were defined in terms of the price of gold. One dollar in 1930 would buy you roughly 1/20th of an ounce of gold. In 1933, roughly 1/3rd of an ounce, and in 1971, 1/40th of an ounce of gold.

            So even though throughout that entire period there was still some inflation — your dollars bought you less and less gold — you always knew what the real value of your money was.

            It’s entirely different today. You have no idea what your money is worth when you simply look at the nominal quoted values of assets. Your money is effectively lost at sea and subject to nothing more than government whims about how much money will be printed, what your leaders’ fiscal policies are, and what other investors around the world think of your money (and your government).

            That’s why I consider it absolutely essential — more than ever — that you look at the differences between nominal and real values. When you do, it will open your eyes, and you will see the world in an entirely different way.

            Consider, for instance, the Dow Jones Industrials. In nominal terms as I pen this issue, the Dow is down 27.8% from its peak of 14,279.96 in October 2007.

            But in real terms, in terms of its gold purchasing power, the Dow is down a full 50%. Even worse, when measured from the dollar’s purchasing power high in 2000 — and gold’s low back then — the Dow’s real performance over the past decade is a stunning loss in real terms of 79.6%.”

            for further education http://www.shtfplan.com/precious-metals/nominal-vs-real-gold-in-terms-of-other-assets_08262010
            🙂

          3. Your failure to comprehend the actual facts regarding gold is beyond mindboggling. The only one who is “intellectually damaged” is YOU – obviously. GOLD OF OF ABSOLUTELY ZERO FINANCIAL RELEVANCE and is nothing other than AN EXTREMELY WILDLY VOLATILE FUNGIBLE LITTLE NICHE COMMODITY.

            The total value of all of the 180,000 metric tonnes of gold ever mined in the history of the world is less than $7 trillion and 70% of that is in the form of privately held jewelry and only about $1.24 trillion of it amounting to about 32,000 metric tonnes is even owned by banks which is a TINY LITTLE SPECK OF DUST compared to global assets of around $800 trillion and a global annual economy of more than $70 trillion.

            The world long ago TOTALLY OUTGREW ANY USE WHATSOEVER FOR GOLD IN ANY FINANCIAL / MONETARY CAPACITY which is why the so-called “gold standard” was totally discarded domestically by every country in the world back in the early 1930s.

          4. ROLF. Playing with numbers again ? Both gold and foreign federal reserve notes can be revalued/devalued/ and so forth.

          5. So what? What difference does that make? Gold obviously can no longer be revalued by governments because its price is no longer fixed by governments and GOLD IS OF NO USE OR RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER TO GOVERNMENTS at this stage and that has been the case for nearly 100 years.

            As to the price of gold, it’s PRIMARY DEMAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN AS JEWELRY. Always. There is clearly a LIMIT AS TO HOW MUCH ANY BUYER WOULD BE WILLING TO PAY FOR GOLD. There is also the issue of utility as gold is pretty much useless divided into units below 1/10 of one ounce. At $10,000 per ounce, for instance, tiny little flecks of gold would be priced at $100 or so, which would be utterly absurd as gold would no longer be meaningfully divisible into small quantities with any sort of reasonable values.

          6. hehe I guess that’s why Zimbabwe citizens mined/ panned gold for food gas and daily living expenses in grams or less. rolf not to mention gold currency notes with gold imbedded are already made at 1/10 gram or currently worth about 5-6.00 in foreign federal reserve notes…

          7. On the dark side, yes. The side of the yin-yang that is dominated and governed by debt. Can you tell me how many ounces are moving in circulation at this moment ? Obviously not.

            The world outgrew gold only while the price was FIXED and liquidity was limited to weight and weight, only. Now it is virtually unlimited on the basis of price.

            I trust you can handle simple math … yes ? Maybe ?

            Bullion’s liquidity is (wt x trade value/ unit wt.) = wt x (USD/oz)

          8. You are so lost in lunar orbit with utterly meaningless notions that it it is mindboggling. The total amount of gold that “moves in circulation” each year is the u9pplyand demand of around 4,650 metric tonnes that clears the gold markets and the total value of that is around $234 billion which is less than half the annual sales by Wal-Mart.

            GOLD HAS NO FINANCIAL UTILITY OR RELEVANCE WHATSOEVER and the world long ago outgrew it back in the 1930s when all countries totally scrapped the idiotic short-lives notions of a “gold-standard.”

          9. Now you know why the price peg had to be severed. It was the very people that you are defending that set the table for real-time gold-as-money.

          10. Gold has NOTHING WHATSEOVER TO DO WITH MONEY except that it costs far too much money, but fortunately over the past 4 years that situation is being rectified with gold plunging 32% and headed to a further 64% drop from its current price as it reverts towards and to its mean of $456 per ounce.

          11. Gold IS money, dude. It is the ultimate money. It has been money longer than anything else, ever, dude. It was not dictated to be money by a corrupt oppressive government, but chosen through hard experience of tens of millions of people over thousands of years.

            Like, stop spreading the establishment propaganda lies … dude.

          12. Those are laughably false assertions, dude.

            Gold is just a TINY LITTLE TRIVIAL NICHE COLLECTIBLE FUNGIBLE COMMODITY for which the primary use has always been JEWELRY since the stuff was first discovered. The annual sales of the approximately 4,600 metric tonnes of gold supply are only about $240 billion which is less than half the annual sales of Wal-Mart alone.

            Gold and silver have NEVER been money and have merely been used to mint coins with a fixed stated nominal FACE VALUE. You can use a legal tender 1 oz. gold American Eagle anywhere in the US and much of the world where dollars are accepted for its $50 face value but that’s as close as it gets to money for gold.

            The price of a commodity does not make that commodity of any FINANCIAL RELEVANCE whatsoever in relationship to money. The price of the Platinum Group of Metals (platinum, palladium, and rhodium) has nearly always been significantly higher than gold because they are much rarer and of far greater practical use than gold, but that does not make the PGMs of any financial relevance.

            The US long used a “silver standard” until that was discarded around 1870 and briefly replaced with the so-called “gold standard” which was totally discarded domestically in the US in 1933 as an entirely failed experiment. No currency can be limited to the production of some irrelevant “thingy” commodity such as gold or anything else when the population of that currency’s country is vastly expanding as was the case of the US by the 1930s.

            Artificially constraining the growth of money supplies while the population is growing substantially CAUSES DEPRESSIONS and causes countries to fail economically. Isn’t that totally obvious?

          13. You are clearly a liar, and most likely a banker. Everything you say is complete propaganda drivel.

          14. Where do you come up with such utter nonsense? What I have stated here is, of course, 100% true and correct, and I would suggest you read and attempt to comprehend the facts that I have clearly and extensively covered here on a variety of important economic topics.

            ACTUAL FACTS REGARDING GOLD

            Central banks have reduced gold holdings by around 10% over the past decade from 35,000 metric tonnes to 32,000 metric tonnes, and the only reason they are keeping any of it is because of TRADITION and that it makes nice vault DECORATION.

            Gold has NEVER been “money” at all. It has simply been used as one of the many materials along with brass, nickel, copper, silver, and other metals to mint coins where the MONETARY VALUE WAS THE NOMINAL FACE VALUE and not the material used to make the coins. You are perfectly welcome, of course, to use a 1 oz gold legal tender American Eagle for its $50 face value at most retail establishments.

            The simple fact of the matter is that economies and currencies far outgrew gold as the world’s population has increased to its present approximate 7 billion people.

            The total value of the world’s entire gold ever mined of around 180,000 metric tonnes is only worth less than $7 trillion when valued at $1,284 per ounce which equates to around $45 million per metric tonne. Total annual global sales of the the gold supply of around 4,650 metric tonnes is less than $234 billion which is less than half he annual sales of Wal-Mart.

            The less than $7 trillion value of all gold in the world – 70% of which is in JEWELRY – is a mere pittance compared to the annual global GDP of more than $70 trillion and global assets in excess of $800 trillion which makes gold just a tiny little niche collectible commodity of no relevance to valuation of other assets let alone for any monetary usage whatsoever.

          15. Everything, EVERYTHING you stated is either a total lie or completely irrelevant.

            Gold is honest money, and a gold standard limits the huge deficit spending of corrupt governments. That is why the treasonous criminal FDR stole the people’s gold and killed the gold standard – so he could implement his huge unconstitutional socialist dependency creating welfare programs.

            The FRN fake “dollar” is nothing but debt, and the monetary policy under the Federal Reserve is a fraudulent ponzi scheme.

            Those are THE FACTS, DOOOOOD!

            But you are clearly more interested in spreading your ridiculous bogus propaganda lies than engaging in honest discussions. All your posts clearly prove that. And your pathetic lies and specious arguments are so transparent and lame that you are not going to convince anyone, you will not turn people against real money, GOLD. So you might as well just save yourself the effort. Or are you being paid to spread your garbage? By a bank perhaps?

          16. Your totally bogus and extremely stupid and false assertions just make a total fool out of you and expose your extreme ignorance of financial matters.

            There is nothing “fake” at all about the US dollar, and there is certainly no “Ponzi” scheme at all related to the Federal Reserve. The idiocy of such absurd assertions is simply mindboggling. I would suggest you read and attempt to comprehend the Federal Reserve Act at:

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/fract.htm

            The Federal Reserve has done an absolutely superb job of managing the money supply and monetary policy in the US over the past 101 years during which time the US has become the biggest economy in the world and the wealthiest country in the world with over $180 trillion in assets which are offset by only about $60 trillion in debt resulting in around $120 trillion in net aggregate assets in the US..

            Without the Federal Reserve and its monetary policy and influence over the past 100 years, wouldn’t the US still be the irrelevant backwater banana republic that it was back in 1913 as opposed to the economic superpower of the world – by far – with the world’s reserve currency used in 85% of all global transactions and the wealthiest nation in the world with over $180 trillion in assets?

            The Federal Reserve has an excellent web site which explains all of the operations, functions, and details about the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve Act and anyone wanting to learn more about the Federal Reserve can peruse all of that information including their fully audited and highly detailed independently audited annual financial reports as well as a wealth of other information and statistics at:

            http://www.FederalReserve.gov

            The U.S. Federal Reserve Bank – How it Works, and What it Does – Money, Dollars, & Currency

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1OJlJ9COg0

          17. You’re actually venturing into both sides of the yin-yang when making the two references to the nominal value and real value for the weight. Socal can’t follow that logic because he can’t see it. He’s lost in the dark side while being blinded by the light. He is not permitted to enter at this time.

            I think we’ve been throwing pearls to a pig.

          18. Your “weight” nonsense is beyond absurd. Every commodity is measured by weight and gold is no different from broccoli or bananas in that regard.

          19. Its been obvious for some time now that not only does he argue with his own posts he fails to comprehend basic concepts. Such as; fractional reserve banking, how the fed reserve functions and who its owners are, how currency is created and used in unlimited quantity thus devaluing the purchasing power of the currency, the admission of historical facts that all currencies because of unlimited creation thanks to gobernets and central banking have all lost purchasing power and were abandoned, that gold was and is a medium of exchange, ad nauseam.

            Without the understanding of basic concepts he will never understand not only how gold functions but currencies. Thus he will continue to extoll currencies when it has been proven without a shadow of a doubt that gold always wins the fight with currencies.

            As a result he will continue to extoll the virtues of his beloved currency until the day comes when it will be caught in a chokehold by gold. Which at this time it will be delivered a mortal wound of which it cannot recover.

            Forget the fact that central banks world wide are helping to deliver that mortal wound on their own currencies as well. Thus the federal foreign reserve note has its days numbered and this will not be realised by sun baked dude until its far too late.

            Unfortunately not long after this time the federal reserve note will be joining the graveyard of over 600 world wide currencies.
            Thus I concur throwing pearls at a pig is a waste of time as far as attempting to help the pig see through the darkness. Though these exchanges do serve a purpose to one such as myself as to fully understand such concepts and refine them into simple explanations for the purpose of teaching another individual.

            Therefore pigs unwittingly provide a valuable service up to the point where their arguments become completely unsustainable and ridiculous.

            Unfortunately since it has come to the point of ridiculousness thanks to sbd I must bid you adieu fine sir. I wish you well in your teaching endeavours and if you have not already seen Mike Maloney’s hidden secrets of money parts 1-5 and the creature from Jekyll island free on the net I highly recommend that you do. G Griffen is highly informative to listen to and exposes the intent of banksters quite well.

          20. Mikey …

            Thanks. The whole fiat currency paradigm has been a process toward a good end. They exist as currencies on the “dark” side of the liquidity yin-yang. In that paradigm , gold acts as a commodity, store of value and/or investment.

            On the light side of the yin-yang, this is where bullion acts as a debt-free currency and fiat currencies are used to measure the amount of gold used for real-time settlement, with the USD being the link directly into bullion. In this way, all currencies can be compensated on the basis of transaction fees when bullion is used in a payment processor that is weight based.

            Fiat currency is a stop-gap measure, in the role of currency, within economic history. The future is now.

          21. Gold has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH CURRENCY and is of absolutely zero financial relevance in regards to money and currency in today’s modern electronic world with a $70+ trillion a year global economy and around $800 trillion in global assets.

            Are you not aware that the total value of all gold ever mined even at today’s laughably preposterous prices is less than $7 trillion and that 70% of that is in the form of jewelry? Helllllllllllllllllllllllooo?

          22. It is obviously you who fails to comprehend that there is no such thing as “fractional reserve banking” as you have falsely asserted with the most bizarre and ridiculous definitions over and over and over again, particularly when the facts regarding banking and reserve requirement as to extremely clear and easy to understand.

            Once again, you obviously don’t even begin to comprehend that RESERVE REQUIREMENTS RESTRICT THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT A BANK CAN LEND AGAINST DEPOSITS, which is of course its very purpose tn order to remain a RESERVE AMOUNT OF CASH ON HAND TO MEET ANTICIPATED DEMAND DEPOSIT WITHDRAWALS.

            As to bank lending, obviously banks lend against deposits as that is how banking systems operate. Without reserve requirements such as is the case with time deposits BANK CAN LEND OUT UP TO 100% OF THOSE TIME DEPOSITS as opposed to up to around 97% with demand deposits on which reserve requirements apply.

          23. lol hehe telling jokes again, rolf nice try sun baked dude 🙂

            DEFINITION of ‘Fractional Reserve Banking’

            A banking system in which only a fraction of bank deposits are backed by actual cash-on-hand and are available for withdrawal. This is done to expand the economy by freeing up capital that can be loaned out to other parties. Most countries operate under this type of system.

            Also known as “fractional deposit lending”.

            investopedia

            Fractional-reserve banking is the practice whereby a bank holds reserves (to satisfy demands for withdrawals) that are less than the amount of its customers’ deposits. Reserves are held at the bank as currency, or as deposits in the bank’s accounts at the central bank. Because bank deposits are usually considered money in their own right, fractional-reserve banking permits the money supply to grow beyond the amount of the underlying reserves of base money originally created by the central bank.[1][2] wiki

            BILL OF CREDIT. It is provided by the Constitution of the United States, art. 1, s. 10, that no state shall ” emit bills of credit, or make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment or debts.” Such bills of credit are declared to mean promissory notes or bills issued exclusively on the credit of the. state, and for the payment of which the faith of the state only is pledged. The prohibition, therefore, does not apply to the notes of a state bank, drawn on the credit of a particular fund set apart for the purpose. 2 M’Cord’s R. 12; 2 Pet. R. 818; 11 Pet. R. 257. Bills of credit may be defined to be paper issued and intended to circulate through the community for its ordinary purposes, as money redeemable at a future day. 4 Pet. U. S. R. 410; 1 Kent, Com. 407 4 Dall. R. xxiii.; Story, Const. Sec. 1362 to 1364 1 Scam. R. 87, 526.
            2. This phrase is used in another sense among merchants it is a letter sent by an agent or other person to a merchant, desiring him to give credit to the bearer for goods or money. Com. Dig. Merchant, F 3; 5 Sm. & Marsh. 491; R. M. Charlt. 151; 4 Pike, R. 44; 3 Burr. Rep. 1667.

            A Law Dictionary, Adapted to the Constitution and Laws of the United States. By John Bouvier. Published 1856

            Obviously your knowledge is sadly lacking and the sooner you stop embarrassing yourself the better off you will be…hehe

          24. Your extremely stupid and totally false assertions regarding “Fractional Reserve Banking” are beyond ludicrous, clueless, and utterly bogus. Moreover, they show that you haven’t got a clue about bank lending at all and how it works.

            Most all bank loans are SPENT IN FULL IMMEDIATELY to third parties for assets such as cars and houses (which are the majority of all bank lending to borrowers0 which become the COLLATERAL to SECURE THOSE LOANS. Loan proceeds to borrowers DO NOT GOT INTO CUSTOMER DEPOSITS AT BANKS FROM WHICH BANKS CAN LEND ADDITIONAL FUNDS. Loan proceeds are SPENT into the economy.

            When there are NO RESERVE REQUIREMENTS at banks on customer deposits, then 100% OF THOSE DEPOSITS CAN BE LOANED OUT TO BORROWERS as is the case on time deposits such as CDs and savings accounts.

            When there are RESERVE REQUIREMENTS of 3% to 5% at banks on customer DEMAND DEPOSITS such as checking accounts, then a bank can only lend out 95% to 97% of those deposit amounts to customers as they must retain 3% to 5% of those deposits as CASH ON HAND to meet anticipated withdrawals by customers.

            All customer deposits which are LIABILITIES on the general ledger of a bank are BACKED FULLY BY ASSETS on the general ledger of a bank. The form of assets held by the bank is inconsequential to the depositor and can be and is 1) cash, 2) outstanding loans to borrowers, 3) US Treasuries or other allowed asset classes.

            I would suggest you learn about RESERVE REQUIREMENTS and their applicability at:

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm

          25. You require classes on fractional reserve banking lol

            DEFINITION of ‘Reserve Requirements’

            Requirements regarding the amount of funds that banks must hold in reserve against deposits made by their customers. This money must be in the bank’s vaults or at the closest Federal Reserve bank.

            Also known as “required reserves.”

            Reserve requirements are just for the daily functions of the bank nothing more like cash in a till for daily operations nothing more. They do not cover all the depositors cash in the bank as the rest is loaned out.

            hehe lol not all assets are easily converted into liquidity thus liabilities can change in value by the time they are converted. Unlike gold real estate has problems and so forth thus a large part of a banks so called assets are subject to market conditions and can be wiped out in a matter of hours and or days. http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/liquidity/

            Reserve Requirements

            Depository institutions, such as banks and credit unions, must hold reserves in the form of cash in their own vaults or deposits with Federal Reserve, which pays interest on the deposit. The requirement is a ratio, typically 3 percent or 10 percent of total deposits, depending on the size of the bank. For example, if the total deposits for all customers is $100 million in deposits and the ratio is 10 percent, the bank must hold $10 million in cash in its vaults at all times.

            Capital Requirements

            A bank’s assets are its loans or other lines of credit to customers. Capital requirements ensure that banks have enough capital to support these loans. The capital also must meet regulated ratios of equity vs. debt (such as bonds). In 2014, federal regulators directed the eight largest U.S. banks to add nearly $70 billion in extra capital so they are better positioned to cover losses incurred in market downturns.

            Read more : http://www.ehow.com/facts_5723394_reserve-requirements-vs_-capital-requirements.html

          26. Nope. It is YOU who requires classes and/or other education on money and banking, particularly as it concerns the topic of RESERVE REQUIREMENTS.

            Your description above as to reserve requirements is generally correct, and the reason for those REQUIRED CASH RESERVES of 3% to 5% on DEMAND DEPOSITS (checking accounts, etc.) is to ensure that a bank has sufficient funds on hand at all times to handle normal anticipated withdrawals from customer demand deposit accounts.

            Where you obviously are totally confused is in your subsequent nonensical assertion that “not all assets are easily converted into liquidity thus liabilities can change in value by the time they are converted” which is a TOTAL NON-SEQUITOR. Those assets on the books of banks are NEVER LIABILITIES OF THE BANK, but are ALWAYS ASSETS OF THE BANK regardless of what specific class of asset they are including 1) cash, 2) loans outstanding, 3) US Treasuries, or some other approved class of assets that banks are allowed to hold as assets on their general ledger.

            As to gold, it CANNOT BE EASILY CONVERTED INTO CASH AT ALL especially if substantial quantities would be sold by banks into the TINY LITTLE GLOBAL GOLD MARKET which cannot accommodate substantial sized transactions at all and amounts to less than $234 billion in total annual aggregate transactions which is less than 50% the amount of annual sales of Wal-Mart alone.

            A bank attempting to sell even $1 billion of gold would have a difficult time of doing so in a short time period MAKING GOLD AS AN ASSET OF A BANK VERY ILLIQUID, not to mention the fact that the value of gold has PLUNGED 33% OVER THE PAST 4 YEARS which would have resulted in very substantial asset value losses to a bank holding it on the books as an asset over the past 4 years.

            By the way, presently the aggregate percentage for all of the around 7,000 banks in the US of loans outstanding to customers (assets) to customer deposits (liabilities) is at a RECORD HISTORICAL LOW OF ONLY 67%.

          27. funny post gold cant be converted to cash easily compared to real estate hehe ROLF dude you really need to do stand up hahaha

            funny gold plunged in price for 4 years but you forget the decade bull run lol cherry picking facts? hehe another great joke

            Not to forget its price in dollars and has been skyrocketing since 1913 along with the price of all goods and services meaning that the fiat currency is tanking as it takes more dollars to purchase the exact same things.

            I can take my gold and convert it in any city in the world even easer than many foreign currencies. Furthermore people can direct barter with gold as a medium of exchange as they have for thousands of years. Thus is far more versatile than foreign fiat notes. Especially in countries that realise the value of gold compared to devaluing fait currency… Just because western nations have forgotten gold doesn’t mean the rest of the world has.

            Finally what did I just say about RESERVE REQUIREMENTS that they are for allowing the bank to function daily like a float for a business now compare that to “Your description above as to reserve requirements is generally correct, and the reason for those REQUIRED CASH RESERVES of 3% to 5% on DEMAND DEPOSITS (checking accounts, etc.) is to ensure that a bank has sufficient funds on hand at all times to handle normal anticipated withdrawals from customer demand deposit accounts” so what is your problem if you are agreeing with what I said, especially if that is what I said TOO SILLY!

          28. Very small amounts of gold can be converted to real money in US dollars fairly easily, but LARGER QUANTITIES CANNOT BE SOLD EASILY AT ALL. The IMF took years to sell off 400 metric tonnes of gold as there were very few buyers who had any interest at all in it even though that amount was less than 10% of the annual supply of gold amounting to around 4,650 metric tonnes.

            ALL BUBBLES ALWAYS BURST. Since 1971 gold has had 2 up cycles and 2 down cycles. The first down cycle lasted 22 years from January 1980 to well into 2001 during which time the price of gold plummeted 70% leaving at only 30% of its January 1980 value. The second and current down cycle is now just 4 years old and gold has already plunged 33% in value and is headed for another 64% or so plunge and this down cycle will likely last around 20 to 25 years similar to the last down cycle for gold.

          29. ever hear of the shanghi gold exchange ? The past was the past and every year more opportunities open up. Few people have interest in gold in the WEST as they are too ignorant to buy money with no third party liability. The vast majority of westerners hold little gold if any since they are too brainwashed regarding monetary history and central banksters stealing wealth.
            Though the average person usually does not hold 4,000+ tons of gold…
            Stocks go up and stocks go down, equities go up and equities go down, is it any surprise that gold would go up when stocks and currencies go down ? Not for me. Cycles are cycles. In a deflationary depression or hyperinflation people seek safety and gold shines in those conditions. (the flow of wealth demonstrated with exters pyramid paper assets on the top flows to the bottom in uncertain times and to the top in good times) Nor do countries off load that amount of gold unless they wanted to look at browns bottom.. Though if us securities or fiat currency was dumped into the market at 10% of their totals(trillions) the entire market would crash too. Thus your point is moot.
            The market flows in cycles with prices rising and falling though you want to have a stable floor price for gold and for it to continue to keep rising (or falling) which is not the way markets operate unless a great amount of manipulation in the market occurs such as qe. This is why we are seeing greater volatility in the market as the entire market becomes unstable. Hence in the future, large distortions will occur driving prices up (re qe gold bubble formation) or price down ie oil (thanks to qe forming a bubble in oil prices coupled with zirp and the resultant oil price collapse/ deflation).
            Therefore once again you are just playing with numbers and numbers are irrelevant to the fact that gold stores wealth (not price ) over thousands of years compared to; fiat currencies, stocks, bonds, and other paper so called assets.
            The fact is that gold is at the bottom of the inverse pyramid as it forms the foundation of the entire financial system. Nothing you can say or do will change this fact until the current financial paradigm is wiped out . (then humans as they have proven for thousands of years will choose gold once again as a medium of exchange re Weimar republic, Zimbabwe ad nauseam or be forced to do otherwise (which is highly likely ie electronic). Yet another option is that civilisation collapses and humans revert to bartering of goods and services though gold would be chosen yet again over time because of its inherent intrinsic qualities. )
            Since Japans debt to gdp will max out in 2-3 years and will then become unsustainable it is highly likely at that time the real collapse will begin in earnest if not preempted by a Greek implosion followed by a Spain or Italy collapse.
            Although you think gold will continue to collapse in price which it is possible for it to do so but then it is possible for all prices to collapse in a deflationary depression. Though thanks to gobernets they vow to stave off a deflationary collapse and create unlimited currency via qe(ironic since it creates deflation) . Which is deflationary initially but hyperinflationary in the long term. As more liquidity is pumped into the system from borrowing, debt to gdp grows out of control which is unsustainable. Countries like Japan continue to borrow more to prop up their deflationary economy (25 yrs) until interest payments grow so large that they consume the entire gdp of the country. In the meantime so much currency was issued it creates hyperinflation (as exported currency flows back home since the currency suffers a loss of confidence by foreign holders who spend them) in which gold shines for its moment before the country collapses in bankruptcy.
            The scenario that I see is far different than yours of an epic deflationary spiral for decades with unlimited currency creation having no side effect. In this scenario gold will have its day in the sun like it had when previous fiat currencies collapsed and has been proven over 600 times in history across the globe for over half a century. The day will come when we will see currently used fiat currencies tossed into the trash bin of history after being beaten in the fight of the millennium between gold and currencies.

          30. Are you not aware that nearly ALL OF THE GOLD PURCHASED IN ASIA IS PURCHASED FOR JEWELRY PURPOSES?

            As to the price of gold relative to stocks, GOLD PLUNGES RIGHT ALONG WITH STOCKS WHEN STOCKS PLUNGE in nearly all cases except for abberent exceptions. Over the past 4 years nearly all commodities including gold and other metals both base and precious have been plunging BECAUSE ALL COMMODITIES BECAME PREPOSTEROUS BUBBLES totally detached from fundamentals.

          31. You are a great comedian. If gold is bought as jewelry you think it cant be exchanged for currency?
            gold plunging because of qe was no surprise though due to increased currency supply flooding into markets causing prices to be blown into a bubble. Why because it causes hard assets to increase in price as currencies tank in purchasing power. Thus gold increases in price in fiat currencies.. hehe Forget that the eu , japan and uk are engaging in qe pumping the market now…lol

          32. another joke de jour FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKAING AKA FRACTIONAL RESERVE LENDING as you like to call it. heheh it doesn’t exist that’s a good one dude you should do stand up

          33. Banks can lend out 100% of customer TIME DEPOSITS, but can only lend out about 95% to 97% of customer DEMAND DEPOSITS, so IN THE ABSENCE OF RESERVE REQUIREMENTS BANKS CAN LEND OUT MORE MONEY THAN WHEN RESERVE REQUIREMENTS APPLY. That alone entirely blows your bizarre and false notions regarding “fractional reserve banking/lending” to smithereens – obviously.

            UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES MAY ANY BANK EVER LOAN OUT MORE THAN THE AMOUNT OF 100% OF ITS CUSTOMER DEPOSITS.

        2. Bankers are necessary evils in the development of the real-time measuring tool of USD/oz. The fixed peg on the USD (from Bretton Woods) had to be abolished in order to set gold free in order to create the floating value of USD/oz.

          1. False. Gold had nothing whatsoever to do with any currencies domestically since 1933. The Bretton Woods agreement was not about gold but rather about fixing currency exchange rates and was in force from 1944 into 1971.

          2. silly currencies were fixed to usd and gold was stupidly pegged at a certain price to fiat usd. Though countries redeemed their gold because they figured out that the usd was printed into oblivion and more usd dollars existed than gold. Hence they redeemed their usd for gold which is why Nixon stopped conversion of the usd to gold as gold was being drained from vaults which would have collapsed the fiat paper façade. Thus fiat paper currencies have everything to do with gold.

            “Today’s foreign exchange (Forex) market traces its origins to problems with currency exchange that developed in the post-World War II years. Following WWII, under an international treaty known as the Bretton Woods Agreement, most world currencies adopted a fixed exchange rate measured in terms of the U.S. dollar, which in turn was pegged to the gold standard. The idea was to stabilize currency values and stimulate trade. Over the next 25 years, it became clear that this rigid system was doing more to impede international trade than to promote

            Read more : .ehow.com/facts_5006339_did-forex-trading-start.html

          3. well I think with todays tech we could eliminate banksters since gold/silver etc could be put into fiat gold/silver bills. In this way gobernets couldn’t borrow beyond their means, banksters couldn’t print currency into oblivion, the citizen would not be robbed by inflation aka unlimited currency creation. Different bills would have different amounts of precious metals imbedded ie .05 grm gold-1 grm gold etc. Silver could be used in coins with no fixed value in numbers printed on them but only by metal weight (maybe even purity). I think it would be a win win for everyone except banksters and corrupt gobernet officials… Sound good?

          4. Fine professional bankers are more needed and more important than ever.

            As to your currency notions, they are obviously extremely stupid and nothing but utter nonsense. Are you not aware that there are less than $900 billion in printed US dollars out of the money supply of over $12 trillion based on M2? Nearly all US dollars are now ELECTRONIC and that will increasingly be the case in the future.

            Why are you so obsessed with notions of THINGY MONEY when we live in a far superior and advanced ELECTRONIC MONEY WORLD?

            Practically NOBODY has any interest in using paper money and much less coins or other thingy money as those are RELICS OF THE PAST.

          5. LOL BANKERS AKA PARASITES are required like a bullet in ones head. Who cares what is electronic or not? What does that have to do with unlimited currency circulation except the fact that if banksters switched to a pure electronic system they can digitalise it into oblivion. In other words banksters can steal unlimited wealth because of unlimited currency creation which devalues the currency which only transfers wealth to those who own the system or spend the newly created currency first. Thus banksters would own everything and non banksters nothing ..insanity. Advanced, more like darker than the dark ages rolf

          6. Your ignorant lack of respect for BANKING PROFESSIONS is repulsive and disgusting, not mention CRASS AND PATHETIC.

          7. The US dollar is the MOST “HONEST” CURRENCY IN THE WORLD AND IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

      4. Please. You’re embarrassing yourself and making the rest of us practically micturate in our shorts from your risible comments! Paid troll, right?

        At the very *best*, bankers are a useful evil.

        1. What I stated is, of course, 100% correct. Banking professionals are at the very heart of the functioning of the US financial system and I would suggest you learn to show proper respect for these fine and outstanding financial professionals.

          1. LMAO! How much do you get paid to spew nonsense? Or is some sort of really weird kink you have? You know, a little one-handed typing while you troll? LOL

            Thanks for the laugh! 🙂

          2. Again, what I stated is 100% true and correct throughout my comments Do you have some kind of comprehension or reality recognition problem, dude?

          3. I’m sorry. Did you actually think that anyone cared or read what a paid shill for banksters was writing? LOL

            Crawl back under your rock.

  32. Bring it on. I couldn’t ask for a more satisfying environment. I’m especially looking forward to when the “big money” runs for the exit. I remember a conversation with a banker a few years ago in which he said the reason he/bankers were not interested in gold was because there wasn’t enough of it. “You can buy and sell billions of dollars worth of US Treasuries in one day without affecting the price,” he explained, “but you can’t do that with gold – so it’s useless.”

    I can’t wait.

    1. That yellow stuff will soon be well below $999 per ounce as it heads rapidly towards its mean and maximum fair value of around $456 per ounce.

      1. LOLOL You are a fool its heading up like a skyrocket in every country, China is about to de peg from the shit dollar and ALL countries to follow suit with the reserve status gone the gold stand coming from the BRICS as they have planned Petro Dollar dead and all the artificial props to the shit dollar is DEAD its headed to 0 this for those 50+ million manufacturing and production Clinton destroyed in the 90’s

        1. Where on earth do you come up with such inane nonsense? China has no intention whatsoever to “depeg” from the US dollar and if it ever did the exchange value of their renminbi (RMB / yuan) would crash like an exploded rocket into the abyss. Helllllooooooo?

          1. Socal, you’re completely 180 degrees wrong. You sound like the CNBC bankster fools on t.v. clearly you’re a paid disinfo troll.

            Just as the Swiss de-pegged from the Euro (I believe you said once that wouldn’t happen, and you were wrong, as usual) and yes, they did have pain but NOT de-pegging would have sunk them, in the same way the Chinese will de-peg (along with HK dollar), they will have great pain, but they will have to de-peg or be sunk, and the dollar will crash, not the rmb/yuan.

          2. Nope. It is YOU WHO IS “180 DEGREES WRONG” – obviously. The Swiss franc was NEVER PEGGED AT ALL TO THE EURO. You don’t even understand the concept of pegging currencies. The Swiss National Bank (SNB) didn’t “peg” the Swiss franc to the Euro but rather set a SUPPORT TARGET LEVEL of €1.20 for the Swiss franc and then intervened in the markets by selling Swiss francs to keep the Swiss franc right around that level, which is very different from a currency “peg.”

            Any depegging of the Chinese renminbi (RMB / yuan) from the US dollar would result in a MASSIVE EXCHANGE VALUE CRASH OF THE renminbi and a HUGE SURGE IN RELATIVE VALUE OF THE US DOLLAR – obviously.

            China is the most EGREGIOUS MONEY AND CREDIT CREATOR IN THE WORLD AND CREATED A $23 TRILLION MONEY AND CREDIT BUBBLE over the past 10 years despite the fact that its economy is less than 50% the size of the US economy in which the Federal Reserve has only increased the MONETARY BASE BY AROUND $3 TRILLION during the same period of time.

            China is a ludicrous, laughable, and preposterous CREDIT BUBBLE WRECKAGE. The renminbi has ZERO CREDIBILITY AS A CURRENCY. Are you not aware, Erik, that China “printed” $23 trillion in renminbi over the past 10 years and that China is BY FAR THE MOST EGREGIOUS MONEY PRINTER IN THE WORLD.

            During the same time that China increased its money supply by $23 TRILLION, the Federal Reserve only increased the MONETARY BASE (not the money supply) in the US by $3 trillion China’s economy is about HALF THE SIZE OF THE US.

            China has NO BANKING OPERATIONS IN THE US other than a single branch of the PBOC in New York with a very limited correspondent branch in Los Angeles.

            China created over $23 TRILLION IN NEW MONEY to do so making China by far the MOST EGREGIOUS MONEY PRINTER IN THE WORLD and they created an unprecedented debt bubble as a result of their unprecedented credit and money creation spree and it is now imploding.

            Fitch says China credit bubble unprecedented in modern world history

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/10123507/Fitch-says-China-credit-bubble-unprecedented-in-modern-world-history.html

            What China did with credit and money creation over the past 10 years makes the US look like a bunch of little penny pinching pikers.

            China’s economy is a CATASTROPHIC DISASTER drowning in tens of trillions of dollars of BAD LOANS for which there is highly inadequate collateral and a TSUNAMI OF BANKRUPTCIES IMMINENT AND ALREADY HAPPENING.

            China’s Li Keqiang warns investors to prepare for wave of bankruptcies – Guardian

            http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/china-li-keqiang-wans-investors-bankruptcies

            How China Fooled The World (Full Documentary)

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwiEKVrZFWc

          3. You poor misinformed fool. CHINA IS THE CREDITOR. By your logic, the Franc would have crashed after de-pegging from the Euro. It didn’t so YOU ARE FACTUALLY WRONG.

          4. Your assertions are beyond totally bogus and laughable.

            China is the most EGREGIOUS MONEY AND CREDIT CREATOR IN THE WORLD AND CREATED A $23 TRILLION MONEY AND CREDIT BUBBLE over the past 10 years despite the fact that its economy is less than 50% the size of the US economy in which the Federal Reserve has only increased the MONETARY BASE BY AROUND $3 TRILLION during the same period of time.

            China is a ludicrous, laughable, and preposterous CREDIT BUBBLE WRECKAGE. The renminbi has ZERO CREDIBILITY AS A CURRENCY. Are you not aware, Erik, that China “printed” $23 trillion in renminbi over the past 10 years and that China is BY FAR THE MOST EGREGIOUS MONEY PRINTER IN THE WORLD.

            During the same time that China increased its money supply by $23 TRILLION, the Federal Reserve only increased the MONETARY BASE (not the money supply) in the US by $3 trillion China’s economy is about HALF THE SIZE OF THE US.

            China has NO BANKING OPERATIONS IN THE US other than a single branch of the PBOC in New York with a very limited correspondent branch in Los Angeles.

            China created over $23 TRILLION IN NEW MONEY to do so making China by far the MOST EGREGIOUS MONEY PRINTER IN THE WORLD and they created an unprecedented debt bubble as a result of their unprecedented credit and money creation spree and it is now imploding.

            Fitch says China credit bubble unprecedented in modern world history

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/10123507/Fitch-says-China-credit-bubble-unprecedented-in-modern-world-history.html

            What China did with credit and money creation over the past 10 years makes the US look like a bunch of little penny pinching pikers.

            China’s economy is a CATASTROPHIC DISASTER drowning in tens of trillions of dollars of BAD LOANS for which there is highly inadequate collateral and a TSUNAMI OF BANKRUPTCIES IMMINENT AND ALREADY HAPPENING.

            China’s Li Keqiang warns investors to prepare for wave of bankruptcies – Guardian

            http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/13/china-li-keqiang-wans-investors-bankruptcies

            How China Fooled The World (Full Documentary)

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwiEKVrZFWc

          5. Those assertions are nothing other than absurdly bogus and utterly false nonsense. The US has created a very small amount of money amounting to less than $3.5 trillion at the Federal Reserve over the past 10 years and has only increased its MONETARY BASE as those funds have stayed entirely inside the Federal Reserve, whereas the People’s Republic of China has created / printed more than $23 trillion over the same time period despite the fact that the size of China’s economy is about half that of the US economy.

            As to China, it is in the EARLY STAGES OF ITS BIGGEST COLLAPSE IN ITS HISTORY and is a CATASTROPHIC DEBT WRECKAGE AN FINANCIAL DISASTER PLUNGING INTO THE ABYSS. Are you aware that the main Chinese stock index, the Shanghai Composite, has PLUMMETED 7.71% this morning in China which is right near its biggest plunge in history?

            http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/19/investing/shanghai-composite-china-stocks/

      2. Yeah mate, I got your point now reading all your comments below!

        How stupid then is the US government not to sell its 8000 tons of this barbarous worthless commodity!! Instead of keeping it out of “tradition”, the US governement could make an immediate 30-fold (!!!!) profit om its books ($42 vs current $1300 market price).

        Sell the yellow bricks to those dumb Chinese and Russians for 30 times the value, killing two birds with one stone: big profits for th US and stuff the Chinese and Russians with 30x overvalued yellow shiny bricks loooool.

        1. The problem with that strategy of the US government dumping its 8,200 metric tonnes of gold is that it would cause the price of gold to crash to near its book value as the total gold market annually of around 4,650 metric tonnes of the stuff would be swamped and overwhelmed with vast excess supply and no buyers at anywhere near the current absurdly elevated market price for the stuff.

          The Chinese government has no interest whatsoever in having more than their current 1,054 metric tonnes of gold, and times are very hard these days in Russia and they have little interest in increasing their gold holdings beyond their present around 1,150 metric tonnes which is worth about $65 billion although they keep buying a few metric tonnes of the stuff each month.

          1. OK, then why hasn’t the US government started selling its gold at a massive profit in the past 10 years? Gradually it wouldn’t have collapsed the price.

            Secondly, the Russians would be more than happy to buy some, as they are frantically stacking the yellow bricks since a few years.
            Re. China, ok, let’s assume you are right. There is still a huge Chinese demand (private then.

            So a gradual sale of the yellow bricks over a couple of years would have for sure found buyers at a high profit margin for the US.

          2. Frankly, if all 180,000+ metric tonnes of gold ever mined were to be collected and then dumped into the mouth of an active volcano it wouldn’t matter a hoot to the value of the world’s assets as it would be significantly less than 1% of the global assets exceeding $800 trillion.

          3. You’re not answering to my question: why hasn’t the US government maximized its profits by gradually selling the worthless yellow bricks for multiple profit margin, as any wise investor would do?
            In your scenario of the gold price the Us will end up with the biggest hoard of worthless bricks, making them the biggest loser in the world.

            I don’t argue with your views on where gold is heading; I am asking you if you are right, then why isn’t the US acting in its own best (financial) interests??

          4. TRADITION. What the heck else would they stick into the vaults in the US Mint depository outside of Fort Knox, Kentucky and West Point, New York? Silk flowers? Plastic palm trees? Or rent them out empty for wedding parties and barmitzvahs and basmitzvahs?

          5. OK, you just made my point LOL
            I love traditions! Certainly ones that have lasted for 6000 years 😉

          6. Yeah I know. Just wanted to make him/her look even more stupid by aksing one simple question ;))

          7. Gold will never be totally worthless and isn’t likely to fall lower than the current US government official price of $42.22 per ounce.

          8. Dude only 800 trillion why even Zimbabwe printed 100 trillion fiat currency notes. There must be quadrillions of trillions of fiat currency around the globe. I’m surprised you are not surfing fiat currency mountains yet..
            “On 1 August 2008 the banknotes of the third dollar (ZWR), which were printed for the abandoned second phase of the 2006 redenomination, replaced the cheques of the second dollar at the ratio of 10 billion (1010) to 1.[2][20] The Bearer and Agro cheques of the second dollar were phased out along with the smaller denominations of the third dollar on 1 January 2009. Despite the reform the Reserve Bank issued several high-value denominations up to $100 trillion ($1014 wow DUDE CHECK THIS OUT !) in the period between September 2008 to January 2009,[I] which merely kept in similar pace with the cash rate instead of the black market rates.[21]

            On 2 February 2009, banknotes of the fourth dollar (ZWL) were introduced to replace those of the third dollar at the ratio of one trillion (1012) to 1. It was originally envisaged that banknotes of the third dollar would remain legal tender until 30 June 2009 but all banknotes were withdrawn from circulation following the suspension of the Zimbabwe dollar on 12 April 2009.[5][II]” wiki Too bad they didn’t reach the quadrillion note mark. OH WELL BETTER LUCK NEXT TIME…

          9. As to Zimbabwe, are you not aware that it has been using 5 currencies for years with the US dollar as its primary currency and that its economy is sound and thriving and prosperous these days?

          10. Am well aware their fiat currency burned and crashed and gold was used until more fiat currency flooded the country.. Any country can survive with gold, resources, food etc…

          11. Gold was never used to any significant extent whatsoever in Zimbabwe;. What rapidly replaced the currency of Zimbabwe was US DOLLARS and 4 other foreign currencies, and the US dollar is the most prominent and pervasive currency in use in Zimbabwe today.

          12. youtube gold for bread and find out what happened when their currency crashed and burned.

          13. The currency issues in Zimbabwe were VERY SHORT LIVED and were rapidly resolved by Zimbabwe adopting 5 foreign currencies for their economy with the most important one being the US dollar which totally solved all of their currency issues.

            VERY LITTLE GOLD was ever used as any medium of exchange in Zimbabwe which doesn’t even have hardly any gold. Moreover, and quite obviously, gold priced at $1290 an ounce has no relevance or utility whatsoever in buying trivial little things like bread which typically cost as little as $1 per pound. Helllloooooo?

          14. so changing your mind from never significantly used to used for a short time ? The fact remains it was used and will be used when currencies implode thanks to unlimited currency creation by central banks thanks to gobernet borrowing. Thus gold is money and has been longer than any currently existing currency and will be after present day currencies are long extinct. Even if the world goes electronic black market gold trade will continue to exist.

          15. The simple fact of the matter is that economies and currencies far outgrew any financial use for gold entirely.

            The world is now populated with over 7 billion people and the global GDP is in excess of $70 trillion and global assets are around $800 trillion. By contrast the total value at $1294 per ounce of all of the 180,000 metric tonnes of gold ever produced is less than $7 trillion and 70% of that is in the form of jewelry widely distributed around the world leaving less than $2 trillion even theoretically available in the form of bullion for any monetary purposes.

            The only purpose of any sort of “thingy standard” against money supply is to LIMIT MONEY SUPPLY and any limiting of money supply would cause a massive collapse of economies around the world, so what exactly would a “gold standard” accomplish other than totally crashing economies?

          16. hehe funny prices can change thus numbers mean nothing as metal prices rise and fiat notes can be devalued not to mention made scarce thus increasing the purchasing power of either gold of fiat currency…

          17. All metals prices have been plummeting for the past 4 years and most all of those metals prices are down 30% to 60% and continuing to drop as they were nothing other than PREPOSTEROUS BUBBLES.

            Meanwhile the purchasing power of the US dollar against those metals has been soaring, just as it has against nearly all other commodities.

          18. Indeed qe created massive bubbles that are collapsing in housing and various commodities such as oil. Though since that time people are too ignorant to realise that the base money supply has skyrocketed, debt has skyrocketed, and so forth.
            Thus gold is a bargain at todays prices because of the trillions in fait currency both digital and electronic that flooded the markets with liquidity.
            Now kamikaze Japan, along with the EU, and UK are following the US lead causing more bubbles to be blown in the markets and housing thanks to qe policies. Thus there is such massive distortions in the markets its unknown what the true value of any asset is and like w buffet I prefer holding on to hard assets in a time of such uncertainty.
            One of the top ten rules of the Ferengi is always buy low never buy in the midst of a bubble.
            Deflation comes first then inflation mile Maloney youtube

          19. Your absurdly false assertions about QE are utterly laughable.

            NOT A SINGLE PENNY OF QE FUNDS EVER LEFT THE FEDERAL RESERVE AND REMAINS IN THE EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THE BANKS THERE FROM WHOM THE FEDERAL RESERVE PURCHASED SECURITIES, SO IT IS UTTERLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR QE TO HAVE HAD ANY EFFECT ON ANY BUBBLES ANYWHERE OF ANY KIND> Why keep putting such such utterly stupid and blatantly false assertions.

            As to gold it is just one of more than 27 commodities and the prices of gold and nearly all of those commodities have been PLUNGING MASSIVELY OVER THE PAST 4 YEARS and will continue to plunge. There is nothing at all special about gold relative to other commodities at all, other than that it is one of the most overpriced of all of the commodities and is headed to more than 60% plunges dead ahead from its current BUBBLE PRICE LEVEL.

          20. The Federal Reserve version of QE was JUST A SERIES OF ACCOUNTING ENTRIES TO MOVE EXISTING US TREASURIES FROM THE BOOKS OF THE BANKS FROM WHICH IT PURCHASED THOSE SECURITIES TO THE BOOKS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE IN EXCHANGE FOR THE PROCEEDS OF NEWLY CREATED MONEY BEING DEPOSITED EXCLUSIVELY IN THE EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THOSE BANKS AT THE FEDERAL RESERVE. That only increased the MONETARY BASE and had no affect whatsoever on the MONEY SUPPLY.

            QE had nothing whatsoever to do with any markets and 100% of the QE funds always STAYED INSIDE THE FEDERAL RESERVE. There was NO MONEY PUT INTO CIRCULATION WHATSOEVER WITH QE and not a single penny of QE funds were used to speculate on anything as they always REMAINED INSIDE THE EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF THE BANKS THERE FROM WHOM THE FEDERAL RESERVE PURCHASED SECURITIES.

            The Federal Reserve DID NOT GIVE A SINGLE PENNY TO BANKS WITH QE, but rather purchased existing securities owned by those banks which meant that those banks who sold those securities to the Federal Reserve HAD NO NET GAINS WHATSOEVER with those QE transactions.

            FEDERAL RESERVE VERSION OF QE EXPLAINED:

            1) Federal Reserve buys securities from banks

            2) Federal Reserve deposits cash proceeds in excess reserves accounts of those banks at the Federal Reserve

            3) Securities stay parked on assets side of Federal Reserve GL

            4) Proceeds funds stay parked on liabilities side of Federal Reserve GL in the excess reserves accounts of the banks at the Federal Reserve

            The process is an ENTIRELY CLOSED LOOP just as if it were done inside a VACUUM.

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h8/current/

            http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/bst_fedfinancials.htm

            How many times does this have to be stated before it actually sinks in, folks?

            The QE funds are sitting parked in the excess reserves accounts of the banks and none of them ever got into the economy at all as is clearly established by the evidence on that matter. The total amounts in those excess reserves accounts now exceeds $2.5 trillion.

            EXCESS RESERVES ACCOUNTS OF BANKS TOP $2.5 TRILLION – WSJ

            So what exactly are excess reserves, and why should you care? Like most central banks, the Fed requires banks to hold reserves—mainly deposits in their “checking accounts” at the Fed—against transactions deposits. Any reserves held over and above these requirements are called excess reserves.

            Not long ago—say, until Lehman Brothers failed in September 2008—banks held virtually no excess reserves because idle cash earned them nothing. But today they hold a whopping $2.5 trillion in excess reserves, on which the Fed pays them an interest rate of 25 basis points—for an annual total of about $6.25 billion. That 25 basis points, what the Fed calls the IOER (interest on excess reserves), is the issue.

            http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579238403178592262

          21. hehe obviously you fail to understand what qe is which I posted previously. Quantitative easing involves the creation of a significant amount of new base money by a central bank by the buying of assets that it usually does not buy. Usually, a central bank will conduct open market operations by buying short-term government bonds or foreign currency. However, during a financial crisis, the central bank may buy other types of financial assets as well. The central bank may buy long-term government bonds, COMPANY BONDS, asset-backed securities, STOCKS, or even extend commercial loans. The intent(LOL) THEORY is to stimulate the economy by increasing liquidity and promoting bank lending, even when interest rates cannot be pushed any lower. hehe rolf
            What is the effect of qe? massive bubbles and deflation which is what is occurring hence eu qe started up lol….One cannot buy themselves out of debt by borrowing more hehe
            PS What does the foreign fed do by buying bonds…ahh duh it lowers interest rates commonly known as ZIRP. If oligarchs and private banks can borrow near 0% interest unlimited currency(via leveraging) then what do they do with it ? SPECULATE since they pay that loaned currency back that is worthless than it was previously. Remember citizens are broke

          22. Latest estimates shows Red China has 10,000+ tons and I would guess once they buy it all up then they can reset the price. Then your banker buddies at the Fed will have to print gold to trade with.
            The price in dollars is pretty much meaningless.

          23. Those bogus assertions are totally false. The government of the People’s Republic of China official has 1,054 metric tonnes of gold accordingly to the latest January 9, 2015 World Gold Council report and has kept that amount constant for the past 6 years and has stated many times that they have no interest whatsoever in increasing the amount of government gold they hold.

            That gold is worth about $60 billion at current market prices. Meanwhile, over the past 10 years, the government of China through the PBOC (People’s Bank of China) has created (“printed”) around $23 to $24 trillion of currency and credit thereby making it the MOST EGREGIOUS AND PROFLIGATE MONEY CREATOR EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD despite its economy being about half the size of the economy of the US.

      3. It appears that you have a hard time evaluating evidence. You deserve the financial ass-kicking that you are going to get in the near future.

        1. There will not be any physical gold available at 456 dollars per ounce, the shelves bill be bare long before that.

          Maybe bankers paper gold will drop that low but who cares ?

          1. The markets will be DROWNING WITH VAST EXCESS SUPPLY OF GOLD as its prices crashes below $999 per ounce and plungers lower. Hellllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooo?

          2. Thanks for the heads up. I am grateful that you have taken the time and effort to talk me out of stacking real wealth that has a 6000 year history. I will rush out today and sell my shiny stack (my families and grand children’s future) and stock up on FIAT paper printed promises that have all failed in history bearing in mind the current dollar is about forty years old.

            Your high quality financial advice is worth paying for, would you like French Francs or Zimbabwe dollars . Do you have a web site or regular magazine I could subscribe to ?

          3. You are so very welcome, but I only accept real money which is, of course, US DOLLARS, and they are skyrocketing in value.

          4. a pig wearing lipstick is still a pig

            The dollar is the best looking horse in the glue factory — this week

          5. more like a weakened,coughing drug addict wheazing along with the help of his Chinese “friend,” until that friend finally lets him go.

            Chinese de-peg, coming up!

          6. If China depegs their renminbi (RMB / yuan) from the US dollar its value would instantly crash into the abyss in currency exchange value.

          7. The world long ago TOTALLY OUTGREW ANY USE WHATSOEVER FOR GOLD IN ANY FINANCIAL / MONETARY CAPACITY which is why the so-called “gold standard” was totally discarded domestically by every country in the world back in the early 1930s.

            Gold and silver have NEVER been money and have merely been used to mint coins with a fixed stated nominal FACE VALUE. You can use a legal tender 1 oz. gold American Eagle anywhere in the US and much of the world where dollars are accepted for its $50 face value but that’s as close as it gets to money for gold.

            The price of a commodity does not make that commodity of any FINANCIAL RELEVANCE whatsoever in relationship to money. The price of the Platinum Group of Metals (platinum, palladium, and rhodium) has nearly always been significantly higher than gold because they are much rarer and of far greater practical use than gold, but that does not make the PGMs of any financial relevance.

            The US long used a “silver standard” until that was discarded around 1870 and briefly replaced with the so-called “gold standard” which was totally discarded domestically in the US in 1933 as an entirely failed experiment. No currency can be limited to the production of some irrelevant “thingy” commodity such as gold or anything else when the population of that currency’s country is vastly expanding as was the case of the US by the 1930s.

            Artificially constraining the growth of money supplies while the population is growing substantially CAUSES DEPRESSIONS and causes countries to fail economically. Isn’t that totally obvious?

          8. Many people think the FED is rather tricky and cunning. they have no idea how right they are and neither do you. The mission statement of the whole banking paradigm was to create debt-free liquidity with gold. In order to do that, a real-time measurment tool had to be created. Enter the USD in its floating form , the floating dollar that acts as a servant to real-time debt-free liquidy with bullion as the settlement currency (in weight). No need to argue the point. The facts speak for themselves on the basis of Bretton Woods and the events leading up to today.

          9. Gold was only ever even used for a very brief 60 year period from around 1870 to 1933 in the US federal financial system and then was totally discarded as a FAILED EXPERIMENT entirely in 1933 as respects any domestic use whatsoever with US money.

          10. Of course it failed. It was the standard that failed, not the gold. There have been a series of steps in the process to set gold free so that gold’s weight can be properly monetized in real-time. That’s already happened when the price was set free in 71. I’ll bet you thought that was all about the dollar, didn’t you ? LOL Sleight of hand.

            Gold has unlimited liquidity , as a currency, on the theoretical basis that the floating price is unlimited. That now makes gold a fully scalable currency and the dollar a real-time measure (USD/oz) for weight. The dollar’s role as a currency has been but a stop-gap measure in monetary history.

          11. Huh? Gold has NO MONETARY LIQUIDITY AT ALL and is just a fungible commodity. The only time gold has any liquidity is when it is melted as a metal or dropped like Alka-Seltzer tables into Aqua Regia in which it dissolves into a clear orangish liquid.

          12. Define: totally discarded

            Is Executive Order #6102 what you are talking about? No debate or process in Congress, just a decree from a dictator, who then took all the people’s gold that he and his cohorts could get their hands on after issuing the dictatorial decree. THEN, by decree once again, revaluing it to a higher “dollar value” after they had confiscated everyone’s gold that they could. It’s good to be the King, apparently. Only I thought the country I lived in wasn’t supposed to be Monarchy.

            But I can see that I was lied to. Just like I was lied to all my life as a kid about the Social Security Trust Fund. I knew even as a kid that the S.S. Trust Fund was a big fat lie. Maybe not right at first, but after a few times I could tell, even as the lie was told to my face.

            Just because some guy comes along and issues an Executive Order, does not erase thousands of years of history of gold and silver being used as money. 40 years of fiat, does not a monetary system make.

          13. Totally discarded means totally trashed, totally eliminated, totally rendered inoperable and irrelevant, totally thrown into the garbage bin of history. Get it now? Helllloooooooooo?

          14. That article from that gold pumper rag about the Swiss franc is so ludicrous as to be rolling on the floor laughable.

          15. If Congress had remained in control of money creation in the US we would have a catastrophic out of control fiscal disaster in the US.

            The Federal Reserve has done an absolutely superb job of managing the money supply and monetary policy in the US over the past 101 years during which time the US has become the biggest economy in the world and the wealthiest country in the world with over $180 trillion in assets which are offset by only about $60 trillion in debt resulting in around $120 trillion in net aggregate assets in the US..

            Without the Federal Reserve and its monetary policy and influence over the past 100 years, wouldn’t the US still be the irrelevant backwater banana republic that it was back in 1913 as opposed to the economic superpower of the world – by far – with the world’s reserve currency used in 85% of all global transactions and the wealthiest nation in the world with over $180 trillion in assets?

            The Federal Reserve has an excellent web site which explains all of the operations, functions, and details about the Federal Reserve and the Federal Reserve Act and anyone wanting to learn more about the Federal Reserve can peruse all of that information including their fully audited and highly detailed independently audited annual financial reports as well as a wealth of other information and statistics at:

            http://www.FederalReserve.gov

            The U.S. Federal Reserve Bank – How it Works, and What it Does – Money, Dollars, & Currency

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1OJlJ9COg0

          16. Congress is the grosser of two evils. I can see from your logic that you think a money system has to be hierarchical and governed from the top. It only needs a focal point for power and control if it’s debt based. Debt-currency and a focal power point are co-dependent. Asset based currency, however, can be decentralized because the service is not centralized in the “accounting books”, but in each sovereign morsel that is backed by the sweat of the brow..

            Bullion is a sovereign currency, debt-free and can be created and distributed free from any particular control point whether you want to call that point hierarchical or central.

            Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s

          17. You speak as if bankers are the heros of our age, as if. Tell you what, crawl back behind your teller window, puss. I guess we cant figure much else from some beach dude from So cal. Totally fitting for idiots like you.

          18. Bankers are outstanding financial professionals and are to be highly praised for their excellent work in our economy today.

          19. sorry but allowing unlimited currency creation allows for unlimited gobernet borrowing until the gobernet cannot service that debt by the entire GDP of said country or world. Thus banking encourages unlimited borrowing as those who own it will over time own assets that were used as collateral for loaning out that currency.

          20. If qe where the federal reserve buys bonds from banks is not currency creation then what does the fed pay the banks with, feathers?

          21. Excess debt is “the stick approach” to drive the world markets toward gold, Mikey. Do you really think they would respond to a “carrot” ??? There are necessary evils written into “the script”. 😉

          22. Gold was TOTALLY WRITTEN OUT OF THE MONETARY SCRIPT FOR ALL COUNTRIES DOMESTICALLY BACK IN 1933 and entirely removed from any linkage to the monetary script internationally in 1971.

          23. silly I guess that’s why there are bullion banks, central banks hold gold and the usd was pegged to gold till 1971, and so forth. The banksters tried to demonetise gold and they have been successful to a large degree although thanks to unlimited currency creation aka qe done world wide citizens will go back to metals as they have no third party liabilities.

          24. The US dollar has nothing whatsoever to do with gold domestically in the US since 1933. Gold ceases to have any relevance whatsoever financially related to money back in the 1930s and only a few very limited international transaction vestiges remained as pat of the Bretton Woods Agreement until l971.

            The fold standard itself in the US was NOTHING BUT A VERY BRIEF FAILED EXPERIMENT LASTING ONLY 60 YEARS from 1870 until 1933.at which time it was ENTIRELY DISCARDED DOMESTICALLY IN THE US AND IN EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.

            What you fail to comprehend is that the WORLD’S POPULATION HAD VAST EXPANDED AS HAD THE US AND GLOBAL ECONOMIES and gold just became a trivial little BARBARIC RELIC OF NO SIGNIFICANCE AT ALL RELATED TO MONEY. It became BECAME WORTH ESSENTIALLY SO LITTLE IN THE BIG PICTURE RELATIVE TO THE SIZE OF THE POPULATION AND ECONOMIES AS TO HAVE NO UTILITY WHATSOEVER.

            Today we have around $800 trillion of assets in the world and a $70+ trillion global economy and the total value of all of the 180,000+ metric tonnes of gold ever mined is less than 1% of the world’s assets and 70% of that gold is in the form of privately held JEWELRY widely dispersed around the world.

            If all of the gold ever mined were to be rounded up and dropped into the mouth of an erupting volcano to melt it back into the earth from whence it came, the fact that all of it was gone back into the earth wouldn’t matter a single bit of hoot in the US and international financial system as it amounts to LESS THAN 1% OF GLOBAL ASSETS.

          25. hehe I will trade you a piece of paper with numbers I wrote on it for your silver/gold. Reminds me of the white settlers trading beads and mirrors for land sad but true…

            Gold has been in use for thousands of years no fiat currency has lasted even a thousand years thus fiat currency will always loose the fight against gold. Name one fiat currency in use for a century….rolf

            Actually gold was in use far before 1870 dude hehe silly
            Hey check out this clip on you tube, Zimbabwe gold for bread notice how the pretty 50,000 Zimbabwe worthless note is holding real money… yup take a good look at that sun baked dude…

            Once again playing with numbers didn’t I tell you numbers on paper have no intrinsic value except paper and ink .01+.02=.03